Job Discussion Forums

tokyo10 · Joined: 13 Apr 2010 Posts: 27

Hello all,

I've been reading this forum for several weeks and wanted to ask for opinions on my specific situation. I've seen numerous posts about entry level positions however, Id like to find out what kinds of jobs/salary ranges you would expect to see with a Masters in TESOL.

I have about a year and a half of teaching experience at the college level and would like to find something similar in the Tokyo metro area. Even the entry level positions there after taxes (sadly) pay more than what I make in the states. I'm willing to start on the bottom again if need be, but with experience and my degree I'm hoping to not have to. My plan is to live in Japan for a year or possibly more and would love some input from those that are currently living my dream!

Thanks

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

tokyo10 · Joined: 13 Apr 2010 Posts: 27

I appreciate the gritty reality of the situation Glenski, thank you. I dont expect it to be easy, but truthfully, it's confusing to me though that an MA TESOL is as valid as a BA in anything. Makes you wonder what the work/money was for if I could have just picked up a certificate...

CENTROVERT · Joined: 09 Apr 2010 Posts: 12

Let me start this by saying I am in no way attempting to flame your post. I am a social worker in the US and believe in tough love is all.

IF YOU HAVE AN MA IN TESOL... DO NOT MOVE TO ASIA!!!

Seriously. I have taught ESL in Asia before and known a few guys with TESOL MA's. Two of them are even published. And by that I mean actual text books distributed internationally! I myself will return to Asia shortly to get the heck out of my current career and finish my own master's degree online.

I know what I am talking about here...

The people with MA's in Asia are more often than not married into the country/ culture. They have no need for visa sponsorship, proved themselves working in crappy jobs for years while they either earned thier own MA's via distance learning, in country... or by saving thier money and returning home to study and making it back to nation X with the degree. They can usually speak the langaue quite well and have "gone native". Suffice to say, you can't compete against them for the work you really want! Not universities... not international schools (the real ones)... not anywhere or in any environment you might want. You can believe all the job postings you see for university work online all you want... you are fooling yourself in the end. Besides, WTF is the point of calling yourself a professor when the guy at the local chain school makes all of $500 (US) less than you a month? I used to laugh at every tool who called themselves "Professor" when I taught in Asia! Glorified ESL monkey... same modern slavery, but with a fancier title!

The jobs are drying up across the board in Japan. Korea may be hiring more and more people, but they want high turn over hagwon monkeys. Taiwan has potential, but lacks the money the other two pay out. The same could be said for China. Sure, you might find a gem of a job in any one of these places online (or in one of the smaller nations like Vietnam), but in all reality, seeing is believing. Best to get on a plane and go look in person. Maybe then you have a chance, but do you really think you can compete for "career quality" work when you can't offer what the "established career" people already provide? You will end up teaching privates and working in some "school" that is little more than a money mill for the ownership.

Time to face facts... the days of Charismaboy Ken and Whitey Whitney are all but over in Asia. You can find work easily, yes, but with an MA you need to seriously consider new frontiers.

Check out work in the Middle East. They actually want working professionals to actually teach and develop lessons/ curriculums. And... check this out... they actually pay real salaries! Check it out on the Int. Job Baord. How does $60,000 or more a year sound? It's tax free and comes with awesome benefits. Do a bit of research, learn where to teach and not to teach nation wise... and take your pick of work! Want to be a real professor at a real University? Want to head up the program at a real international school? Want to have real opportunities to network and develop yourself? THEN STAY THE HELL OUT OF ASIA!!!

Too afraid to live in the Middle East? Ok, I don't know if you're an American like me, but if not, does living in the US sound like an international experience? Okay... pick any major metropolotan area and have your choice of the following:

1. Professorship at any community college. Not great, but better than Ping-Pong Poly Tech!

2. Any language school in the area. Believe it or not, here in the US there are numerous schools dedicated to ESL exclusively. Kids to adults, day and night. After all, I know we all get a bad rap for being red-necked morons, but few other countries takes in as many legal immigrants each year... and the red-necked morons can't and won't teach them.

3. Any public school. (Yeah that's right... period... full stop.. whatever)

4. Many private schools/ academies.

5. Any one of thousands of non-profit organizations.

So, if you really need that easy yellow tail/ sausage... best of luck. But with an MA, why sell yourself short!

tokyo10 · Joined: 13 Apr 2010 Posts: 27

wow, thanks for the tough love, hell of a post! Obviously there are many factors to consider in this move, and yes it seems now ill most likely have to work language schools/tutoring sessions. I've heard loads of great stories about teaching in Japan specifically and really want to make this a reality. Maybe my earlier "sense of entitlement" comes from the amount of money I spent on my MA.

To be truthful most jobs here offer more than I make in the states and it is the environment I want to be in. Also, I have been preparing for this trip for many years. I took Japanese classes for a year in college and continue to study. Im not a starry eyed gaijin with nothing but a backpack and a dream..I also have some expensive toilet paper.

bje · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 527

As CENTROVERT says, your MA can be used to good effect in the Gulf; the UAE perhaps to best effect at the moment.

Doing an MA with a view to obtaining a 'good' EFL job in Japan is by and large a waste of time, as has been remarked.

If you're seeking a 'career' of sorts in the field (or some decent money, at any rate), you might look at better tertiary institutes in the UAE, such as Zayed and the HCT- although the hiring season may be more or less over by now...

Good luck!

tokyo10 · Joined: 13 Apr 2010 Posts: 27

Not really looking for a career in the field, just for some decent paying positions in Japan. Also, not interested in teaching elsewhere at the moment.

If my degree is in fact as worthless as everyone is telling me, what sorts of moonlighting jobs are out there? Host positions? Bartending? Busing tables? I'm not allergic to looking for work or working hard to live there.

CENTROVERT · Joined: 09 Apr 2010 Posts: 12

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

seklarwia · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject:

tokyo10 · Joined: 13 Apr 2010 Posts: 27

Apsara · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 2142 Location: Tokyo, Japan

dove · Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 271 Location: USA/Japan

I'm no expert, but aren't universities in Japan struggling--even closing-- because of the low birthrate? Don't they limit the amount of years foreign instructors can be employed?

I taught part-time at a university in Tokyo and the lack of motivation from the students really got me down. (Was I like that when I studied French during my university days? If so, I sincerely apologize to me French professors). To be fair, I have also heard about nightmare university students in the Middle East.

I think the advantage of university teaching in Japan--if you can get in--is the long vacation period.

tokyo10 · Joined: 13 Apr 2010 Posts: 27

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN