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Non-native in Japan... what are the chances?
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Emalaith



Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:06 am    Post subject: Non-native in Japan... what are the chances? Reply with quote

Hello to all,

I am a newbie Smile thinking about getting TEFL certified and working abroad. I am a European citizen, with a university degree from my country - which is not in UK - and I have an EU passport.

From what I read in this forum, the requirement to land a job in Japan is to have a passport from an english-speaking country. If I understand it right, employers want this so as to get you a working visa to stay in Japan.

Well, I would very much like to work in Japan but it seems that this problem with the passport is insurmountable. Are there any decent jobs that would not consider it a "must"?

Thanks in advance!
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Mr_Monkey



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a colleague in Japan who was Czech, but had emigrated with his family to Canada when he was quite young.

So yes, you can do it. I'd suggest that you'd need to be able to demonstrate proficiency in the language to any prospective employer, though (do you have the CPE?), and that there's also a chance that any somewhat less than scrupulous employers will try to pay you less. I dimly remember hearing things about non-native speakers needing to have undertaken 12 years of English-medium education to qualify for an instructor visa, although I really can't say whether or not that is actually the case. I'm sure there are others on the forum who can (dis)confirm it.

There's a real native speaker fetish in Japan, irrational though it may be. That may be your biggest obstacle. You could always look for work teaching your native language, and get your visa sponsored that way, although there may not be much of a market for it depending on which language you speak - I've seen schools that offer French, Spanish and German.
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Bread



Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my city there are at least two ALTs from the Philippines, so yeah, it's possible.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr_Monkey wrote:
I dimly remember hearing things about non-native speakers needing to have undertaken 12 years of English-medium education to qualify for an instructor visa, although I really can't say whether or not that is actually the case. I'm sure there are others on the forum who can (dis)confirm it.


It was still the case last year when I got my instructor visa. I had to give a full school history.

Bread wrote:
In my city there are at least two ALTs from the Philippines, so yeah, it's possible.


One of the official languages of the Phillipines is English so they can claim 12 years education in English. It was the same for our ALT from Singapore. I can't think of any EU country that can claim the same. It's silly really. Most of the Germans and Finnish student I went to uni with had much better English than many of the natives in their class and most certainly had a much better grasp of English grammar Confused
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Non-native in Japan... what are the chances? Reply with quote

Emalaith wrote:
From what I read in this forum, the requirement to land a job in Japan is to have a passport from an english-speaking country.
Not true. There are some teachers with the right qualifications, who are from other countries. Where exactly are you from?

Quote:
If I understand it right, employers want this so as to get you a working visa to stay in Japan.
If you want to teach English here and do not come from a place that has a working holiday visa agreement with Japan, you will usually have to show proof that 12 years of your education were completely in English, in order to qualify for a work visa.

Quote:
Well, I would very much like to work in Japan but it seems that this problem with the passport is insurmountable. Are there any decent jobs that would not consider it a "must"?
See the JET Programme. They hire ALTs from about 30 countries.
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yangyoseop



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 47
Location: #1 Sandra Bullock fan in Tallahassee, FL

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bread wrote:
In my city there are at least two ALTs from the Philippines, so yeah, it's possible.


In Asia alone, The Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, and India, among others, have sizable (and growing) populations of people whose L1 is English.
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Apsara



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Pakistani friend with a fairly obvious Urdu-influenced accent who was working as an ALT for a while in Saitama- he found the job quickly. His schooling was mostly in English though, so he met the visa requirements. I have read discussions elsewhere by people who are very fluent English speakers but their schooling was in another language, and they seem to have a very hard time getting Humanities visas.
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starteacher



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course there are opportunities for all, but what is the OP actually up against ?

Anyone have the stats for the numbers of English teachers there are in Japan in the ratio
From Big 5 (UK, US, Canada, OZ, NZ) : "Non-native" countries ??


Well, for JET :
http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/introduction/statistics.html
Over 85% are from the Big 5.

Seems OP is entry level, so how about the stats for eikaiwa work ? I hazard to guess the percentage is even higher.

But I know of some Scandanavians who got work, some southern Europeans too but their vocations did not last long.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starteacher wrote:
Of course there are opportunities for all, but what is the OP actually up against ?

Anyone have the stats for the numbers of English teachers there are in Japan in the ratio
From Big 5 (UK, US, Canada, OZ, NZ) : "Non-native" countries ??


Well, for JET :
http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/introduction/statistics.html
Over 85% are from the Big 5.

Seems OP is entry level, so how about the stats for eikaiwa work ? I hazard to guess the percentage is even higher.

But I know of some Scandanavians who got work, some southern Europeans too but their vocations did not last long.

But the thing about JET is that there is normally the most competition for slots is in the big 5. So what you really want to know is the number of applicants vs the number of participants from each country.

I spoke to an ex-JET from Trindad once and they told me it was very easy for them to get on. Basically there were very few applicants to begin with, then everyone with low level English was screened out using the paper work. The people who got offered interviews all got accepted.

If the same is happening in non-English speaking countries (low number of applicants with high levels of English) then the OP might have a better chance applying for one of the few spots avaliable in their home country than most native speakers applying in one of the big 5 - I say might because the OP has been very hush-hush about where they are from, which is really important and might allow people to give real advice and relevant personal anecdotes.
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yangyoseop



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 47
Location: #1 Sandra Bullock fan in Tallahassee, FL

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^You're aware that English is the official language of Trinidad, right?

starteacher wrote:
Of course there are opportunities for all, but what is the OP actually up against ?

Anyone have the stats for the numbers of English teachers there are in Japan in the ratio
From Big 5 (UK, US, Canada, OZ, NZ) : "Non-native" countries ??


Well, for JET :
http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/introduction/statistics.html
Over 85% are from the Big 5.

Seems OP is entry level, so how about the stats for eikaiwa work ? I hazard to guess the percentage is even higher.

But I know of some Scandanavians who got work, some southern Europeans too but their vocations did not last long.


85% are from the 5 largest English-majority speaking countries, but much of the other 15% are L1 speakers of English (Singapore, Caribbean islands, South Africa, etc)... so actually about 95% of participants are from countries where English is a first language for a large part of the population. I'm not sure how much of OP's schooling was in English, but if it's not much I think he's going to have a hard time finding a way in.
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starteacher



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seklarwia wrote:
But the thing about JET is that there is normally the most competition for slots is in the big 5. So what you really want to know is the number of applicants vs the number of participants from each country.

Good point.

yangyoseop wrote:
85% are from the 5 largest English-majority speaking countries, but much of the other 15% are L1 speakers of English (Singapore, Caribbean islands, South Africa, etc)... so actually about 95% of participants are from countries where English is a first language for a large part of the population. I'm not sure how much of OP's schooling was in English, but if it's not much I think he's going to have a hard time finding a way in.

Since the OP mentioned about visas, well in previous post I mentioned about a few other Europeans, non L1 countries, getting positions in Japan. They did have Japanese spouse visas; but whether this had any impact during their applications, not sure.


Anyone with probability stats for the other entry level jobs - eikaiwas, which is a different kettle of fish, since JET is about promoting "cultural understanding and international exchange" so a wide number of countries (85% still from Big5) can get represented, whereas eikaiwas are private enterprises ?
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Imseriouslylost



Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Non-native in Japan... what are the chances? Reply with quote

Emalaith wrote:
my country - which is not in UK - and I have an EU passport.

From what I read in this forum, the requirement to land a job in Japan is to have a passport from an english-speaking country.


Well, my company employs ALTs from Peru, Mexico, France/Quebec, The Philippines and Hong Kong. It's not common, most people seem to be American and the other big groups are the Brits and the Canucks. However if someone from Peru is able to work here than so can you!
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By coincidence, there was an article recntly about this issue.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fs20100415a3.html

Regardless of someone's actual English ability, the schools will have to consider the students' perception of the teacher. Maybe that is not fair or logical, but companies have a bottom line to consider.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: Non-native in Japan... what are the chances? Reply with quote

Imseriouslylost wrote:
Emalaith wrote:
my country - which is not in UK - and I have an EU passport.

From what I read in this forum, the requirement to land a job in Japan is to have a passport from an english-speaking country.


Well, my company employs ALTs from Peru, Mexico, France/Quebec, The Philippines and Hong Kong. It's not common, most people seem to be American and the other big groups are the Brits and the Canucks. However if someone from Peru is able to work here than so can you!


What type of visas did the ALTs from Mexico, Peru and France have? If they had proper instructors visas to teach English, how did they get around the 12 years of being taught through English?
It doesn't count if they have done alot of studies in English speaking contries or in international schools since I'm assuming that that wouldn't be too helpful to the OP.

I've heard of eikaiwa hiring non natives but they were brought in to teach their L1 as well as English. I would imagine that they would tell immigration that they are being hired to teach the L1 rather than to teach English.
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Emalaith



Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all so much for the replies!

Well, I am from Greece and my 12-year schooling was done in Greek, so I guess I don't stand a chance of getting a working visa as an English teacher Sad

My qualifications in the english language will be a cambridge proficiency and a michigan proficiency (certificates) - along with the TEFL course I am thinking about completing in the next 2 months.

I have a university degree in physics (from a greek university, 4-year course). I am not sure what this "L1" thing means in other countries! It's about your education after the obligatory 12-year schooling?

Quote:
I've heard of eikaiwa hiring non natives but they were brought in to teach their L1 as well as English. I would imagine that they would tell immigration that they are being hired to teach the L1 rather than to teach English.


You mean I could be hired in a school to teach physics in English? I don't qualify for international schools, as they require 2-year experience in teaching.
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