Job Discussion Forums

Seasoo · Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Posts: 20

Hello,
have any of your contracts listed fines for being late, losing students etc...
I want to know if this is normal, cause to me it seems strange and a little bit fishy.

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

There is a fine here for being late for class three times. I don't remember how much it is, I'm never late. Losing students? Whaddya mean, they quit your class? Never heard of it.

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

at language schools its not so fishy to have these fines. it would be fishy if they didn't have them.

i worked at a couple of these places (language "mills") in the past, part time, and i really dont like them. university jobs are the only way to go for me in china. if i was ever job hunting and was presented with a contract that made mention of a fine for losing students (or any other what i consider to be a ridiculous provision), i wouldn't sign and would look for work elsewhere. there are other reasons for students leaving these places that have nothing to do with the teacher(s). but you can bet it will (more often than not) be the teacher's fault when it comes time to collect. ask them to eliminate that clause, or minimize the fine. or maybe you can ask other people working there how often the fines are actually paid. it would be worthwhile checking this stuff out with current employees, if possible.

forgive me for being a bit cynical here, but this is the way i see it after a bit of time at a private language school.

Halapo · Joined: 05 Sep 2009 Posts: 140 Location: Jiangsu, China

If they are giving you fines for thing like losing students ( which to me is something hard to track and easy to makeup ) they are just looking for ways to cut your pay.

I can agree with being late ( however I myself don't have anything in my contract for late, or missing days for being sick or what not, I think I am working on the honor system, if I miss a day or class, I trade with the the teacher that had to cover me).

If you have ever looked at the Japanese forums, its pretty common for the business schools ( and I mean the ones that only care about money and profit ) to charge fines like this. One school was even known for setting the computer clock a bit fast, so that you were late if you were on time, just to dock teacher pay.

I say its not worth it, this company sounds like its just out to show its the one in charge. Or they need to cut your pay any way they can. Or they have had some bad FTs in the past, and now you are going to make up for that.

Is there anything about "Minimum notice for class/venue changes"? Meaning the class could be moved, but you are not given enough time to get there? That was another classic one from the Japanese schools ( and they would change the class from one side of the city to another, knowing the trains couldn't get you there in time, or you we just in a class on the other side of the city).

Lobster · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject:

Whenever the issue of fines comes up in contracts, I usually start editing and adding clauses that fine the employer. Fail to notify me of a cancelled class? That's a fine equal to the proposed class time. Fail to pay me on time? That's a fine equal to 10% of the amount due. Add students to the class without notice? I need to fine you 100 rmb per head. I'm not going to take any job with a lop-sided contract anyway, so I may as well have some fun giving them a taste of their own medicine. I'm just sick and tired of these places that act like they're doing you a favour and want to own you; when in reality without FTs who dropped a bundle on their university educations their whole money-making machine would crash and burn.

Stop accepting the garbage wages.
Stop accepting being treated like garbage.
Stop accepting garbage contracts.

RED

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

That's good, Lobster, I never thought of that. That has worked? They went along with it?

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

I've KINDA used it in the past; a couple of times when conditions were unbearable I threatened to quit immediately and I told the administrators that the "fine-able" offenses meant that they had already broken the contract, so they might want to think twice if they were considering legal action. It worked AND they fixed everything.

cormac · Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Xi'an (XTU)

Seasoo · Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Posts: 20

I am going to go to Hong Kong to renew my visa soon, my plan is to spend a few days in Shenzen trying to find a job. I heard that their working visa regulations are less stringent, which is good for me. If I cant find one, I'll take the job, but try to negotiate the student loss fine out of the contract.

Thanks for all the help and advice.