Job Discussion Forums

[luke77]

Hi all,

I�m new to the boards, and I�ve been reading for several hours but I
figured I�d dip my toe in and ask a question since I�m a bit overwhelmed by the sheer amount of information on the boards. I�m 25 years old, graduated in 2007 from a top public university in the US, Phi Beta Kappa, with a strong academic record. I worked for three years in investment banking in New York, and after deciding I don�t want to devote my life to making money, I quit and applied to graduate schools in Public Policy with plans to work at an NGO/nonprofit. I also decided to travel for 5 months before school starts since I�ve never been overseas and wanted to see the world before getting back into the grind. I�m currently in the second month of my planned trip through Bolivia, Peru, and Ecuador. After being over here, I�m realizing how little I know of the world and different cultures, and I am considering deferring for a year and spending it overseas. I don�t really want to be a travel bum for an entire year plus, and after talking to some fellow (older) travelers, I�m exploring the idea of ESL work.

I just met a lady from South Africa who, during her gap year about 10 years ago, was hired by a summer camp in Italy to speak English with their campers for three months. She didn�t have any kind of certification and found the job online before going over. She got to live in Italy for three months, meet the people, and she was paid enough to travel around the rest of Europe for a month and a half afterwards. In a perfect world, this sounds like my ideal job. I don�t want to teach for an entire year because then I�ll be stuck in one place the whole time. Money is not a huge priority - if I could find a place in Europe that would pay room and board and a little extra, I�d be happy.

However, the impression that I get from reading through the archives on the boards is that it would be near impossible to find a job like this with no
certification or ESL experience since everyone wants to work in Italy (and
Spain, my other number one choice). So I�m not limiting the countries I�d
like to work in to these two.

So, enough background, on to my real questions for the board.

1. Are temporary jobs kind of along the lines I�ve outlined available for
someone with my background? I don�t have any ESL experience but I do have a decent amount of experience working with children, although it was back during my high school/early college years. The countries I�d be willing to work in are (roughly in decreasing order of desirability): Italy, Spain, pretty much anywhere in western or eastern europe, Turkey, Russia, Thailand, Argentina, Mexico, China... I�m willing to work for up to about 8 months, maybe 9 if it is in a good situation. If this plan sounds totally unrealistic feel free to shoot me down.

2. If so, can you suggest which countries are worth targeting, and any tips
on how to do so, other that reading the board for that country and posting
my resume on Dave�s? Also, I got a 1600 on my SATs back when applying to college. Is this something to include on a resume for ESL jobs (since it suggests that I have a reasonably good command of the english language), or does nobody outside of the US know what this is?

Other relevant info I can think of: I have plenty of savings so that�s not
really an issue, I speak intermediate spanish and in the next month or two
I hope to improve that to advanced spanish. Also, please forgive me for
probably including some questions that have been asked before - I�m in
Bolivia right now and the connection is dreadfully slow. I�ve spent several
hours reading through the boards and the site, but it takes so long for
things to load I became frustrated quickly. Also, I hope it doesn�t seem
like I�m treating ESL teaching flippantly - I would not be treating this as
a way to fuel my travel bug, and would certainly take any job teaching very seriously.

Thanks very much.

Luke

[Glenski]

[Kiels]

Firstly, I think that considering deferring your studies to teach ESL is great; it really offers so many exciting opportunities to travel, experience and work in another foreign culture and expand your horizons.

I think the situation as you have outlined has several possibilities. From what I've read, it would be very hard for you to get a work visa for Europe but you did have Thailand somewhere near the middle-bottom of your list. And China right at the bottom.

I'd consider moving Asia up in your list because it can simply be an amazing experience if you're prepared for a huge change. Also, in some countries in Asia, you will be able to teach without incurring huge costs for a CELTA course or equivalent. Most of these jobs will be at a language 'mill' such as ASTON, AYC or Mediakids but they offer short term contracts such as 4/5 month semesters in Thailand which will give you the opportunity to dip your toes into ESL and see whether it is for you without committing to a year long contract.

One option is ASTON English operating throughout China and they also have one school in Vietnam. They have both summer intensive (2 months),6 month contracts and 7.5 month contracts and would probably be a good choice to consider. Working in China gives you a wealth of opportunities to discover a compelely alien, old and diverse country and the travel opportunties are limitless across vastly differing areas of China. China also has effective transport links via rail to enable easy travel. Aston are a franchise company and many others on this site can offer horror stories of working there, so I'd advise you to choose either Jinan or Dalian, two of the better organised and managed schools in the chain to work at. I worked in Jinan with Aston and loved it. You can also choose how many hours you want to work from 15, 20 or 25 a week with related pay and benefits. You'd probably have to obtain a TEFL certification but you said you would have the savings to do so. Gaining a TEFL certificate at the very least will give you an opportunity to study methodology and practice in teaching English as a Foreign Language before you go, helping you to be a better teacher when you are out there.

Another option is Thailand. Both AYC and Mediakids employ ESL teachers who have a degree and 'preferably' some experience of teaching. These are for 4/5 month contracts, one term in a state school. It's a challenge, you probably won't be in Bangkok or a major city but you can save enough there to travel afterwards since livng in smaller cities incurs smaller living costs. From what I remember, they hire for end of May- Mid sept and Oct/Nov - Feb for the two terms in Thai schools. State schools can have up to 45 kids in every class though and support is dependent on the school. As are resources. It's definitely different from ASTON who provide you with classes limited to 18 (and most have less) and provide you with a bi-lingual Chinese Teacher in each class. Again, a TEFL certification would be useful before leaving to help prepare yourself.

Both of these options will provide you with accomodation, perhap shared, perhaps single. Regardless, if you're new, this is helpful if you don't want the hassle of organising it as well. Often these are with other foreign teachers making social connections with foreigners easier if you're worried or feeling apprehensive about heading there on your own.

All of these are options and they do advertise here on eslcafe. You can also google them. I'm sure some people will slate me for recommending some of these schools since they quite regularly get a bad press but for a short experience teaching in a foreign and exciting culture, it can be a great experience. Plus, at Aston in China, if you have never taught before, they have a curriculum throughout and books for each grade you might teach so it helps if you're a newbie.

Hope that helps PM me if you want.

[denise]

Regarding the one-year commitment--yes, schools generally hire for academic years. In various parts of the world, the year runs from Aug/Sep to June-ish or March to... December? It is possible to get a short-term contract to replace teachers who've left during the academic year. In such cases, rather than running an entire year, the contract would go from whenever the replacement teacher started until the end of the year.

d

[spiral78]

I just met a lady from South Africa who, during her gap year about 10 years ago, was hired by a summer camp in Italy to speak English with their campers for three months. She didn�t have any kind of certification and found the job online before going over. She got to live in Italy for three months, meet the people, and she was paid enough to travel around the rest of Europe for a month and a half afterwards. In a perfect world, this sounds like my ideal job. I don�t want to teach for an entire year because then I�ll be stuck in one place the whole time. Money is not a huge priority - if I could find a place in Europe that would pay room and board and a little extra, I�d be happy.

Hard info: in January 2009 the EU laws changed. Non-EU citizens are allowed to be in the Schengen zone (google for a list of countries) for 90 days - then they have to leave for 90 days. The scenario you describe above would be illegal now - and the chances of getting caught are pretty high, as all airports are more or less paying attention to stamps in and out these days.

However, the impression that I get from reading through the archives on the boards is that it would be near impossible to find a job like this with no certification or ESL experience since everyone wants to work in Italy (and Spain, my other number one choice). So I�m not limiting the countries I�d like to work in to these two

Spain and Italy are full of qualified British teachers, who CAN work without any legal hassles, being EU citizens. There are still a handful of non-EU citizens drifting around illegally, but the chances of running into trouble are pretty high.

The minimum qualification for the entire European region is (in most all cases) a 120-hour on site certification including supervised teaching practice with real students. CELTA, SIT, and Trinity are the name brands in this realm, though there are some generic certs that fit the bill. Online certification won't cut it here in most cases.

Regarding Europe, your only real chance would be Central/Eastern Europe. You would need a decent qualification as described above. You would have to sign a regular contract Sept/Oct through June. You would have to make the financial leap to come over and find the job on-site (reputable employers in this region don't normally hire from abroad). And you would have 90 days to get a school to give you a contract and help you get the paperwork filed for a legal work permit. It's a bit of a race against time,but with the right timing and training, it can be do-able. But it's not easy or stress-free by any means!!
And, for all that, salaries are subsistence level at best - again, the job market is continuously full of newbies, driving wages to the bare minimum.

[naturegirl321]

There are six month contracts out there. There are also summer and winter camps that you could do. DOn't expect all the benefits tha tyou would get if you signed a year.

About learning Spanish or a foreign language, it's difficult, as it is subjective. I've seen people with far lower Spanish lagnague skills that I have call themselves fluent. And I've been speaking Spanish at home for the past 5 years.

When you're teaching ENglish, unless you're highly motivated, it's hard to learn another langauge. There are people who live in China, Korea, for years, decades and can barefly get around. Then again, there are poeple who live in palces for a far shorter period and have great langauge skills. It just depends.

As for the SAT sore, leave them off. 1600 is impressive, I assume it's the 1600 test and not the 2400, but the majority of people won't know what it means. I can't even remember my GPA from uni, let alone my SATs and ACTs. Employers aren't that concerend about that for the most part.

[coledavis]

I realise that you may not want to hark back to your investment banking past, but you might be able to get a job teaching English for business.

[luke77]

Hi, sorry for taking so long to respond. I'm now in an area with decent internet access and I appreciate all your helpful responses. I've given things a lot of thought, and I've decided that I am going to give teaching ESL a go. I have a few quick follow-ups and then I swear I'll go to the individual country boards and leave you guys alone. Please dispute anything I write that you don't agree with.

OK, first off, it sounds like all the European Union countries are pretty much out if the minimum requirement is a 120-hour on-site certification. I simply can't afford to take the risk - taking an entire month and a significant amount of money, with what sounds like long odds of landing a job in the EU. Especially because I'll be looking for a less-than 12 month commitment - it sounds like my only shot would be if I was able to commit for 12 months and complete the certification, and even then it would be tough. But before I totally give up on Europe, what about a program such as this: http://www.jobsabroad.com/listingsp3.cfm/listing/28693 ? They call it a "language exchange" where one goes to live in Spain for 1-3 months with a family, teaching English conversationally for 15-20 hours a week, in exchange for full room and board. I'd be responsible for getting over there, but it sounds like that's about it. I'm guessing that a family wealthy enough to hire a foreign teacher to come live with them would treat him/her fairly well although I know it's possible they won't, and it would give me a chance to see Spain more or less free of charge. I'm thinking about this as a precursor to another short-term ESL job in one of the other countries mentioned, not instead. Does anyone have experience with programs such as these, and if so are they legit?

Moving on, the only reason Europe is at the top of my list is because I studied European history in college, and I'm a Euro history nerd. Also, Europe is more expensive than any of the other places I want to travel to, so if I had a chance to work there, even if I only broke even, I'd be happy. So before I get off my Europe bent, what about the non-EU countries: Macedonia, Romania, Turkey? I guess Poland and Hungary are in the EU now, but it seems like they might be less "desirable" for ESL teachers as well. Do the same difficulties for teaching in Europe apply here as well?

Next, just because Thailand, China, etc weren't at the top of my list doesn't mean I wouldn't want to teach there. My only hangup in going somewhere like China, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. is that I likely would not be able to save much of anything, which would be nice if I am going to travel Europe for a while. It'd be hard to reconcile going to China when I could just as easily go to Korea and save probably $1000/month.

So I think my next step is to formulate a list of countries to start researching in depth, but I'd like to narrow down my list of "possibles" first if possible. So far I have China, Thailand, Korea, (potentially Turkey, Romania, Macedonia), Argentina, Russia. Is there a resource somewhere that lists stuff like average pay, average cost of living, minimum requirements, for ESL teachers in different countries? If not, can anyone rule out any of the countries on my list because it would be very difficult to get a visa, get a job without a lengthy TESL, or because it's generally accepted that it sucks to teach English there?

Finally, Denise mentioned the possibility of taking over a contract for a teacher who is leaving for whatever reason. Are there any special techniques to use or places to search for jobs such as these (or for teaching English for business, which I wouldn't mind), or is my best bet just to post my resume on Dave's and hope that I get lucky?

Thank very much,
Luke

[spiral78]

So before I get off my Europe bent, what about the non-EU countries: Macedonia, Romania, Turkey? I guess Poland and Hungary are in the EU now, but it seems like they might be less "desirable" for ESL teachers as well. Do the same difficulties for teaching in Europe apply here as well?

The 'new' EU member countries (Poland, Hungary, Czech Rep, Slovakia, etc). do in general still offer work visas for non-EU English teachers.

However, the same standards regarding certification still apply - a 30-day on-site cert is simply what most newbies on the job market have, and anything less puts you at the bottom of a competitive market. If you read thru the Czech Rep forum, for example, you'll find that Prague is something of a teacher-training-centre mecca - and it's not the only one in the region. There are many, many newly certified teachers hitting the job market every few months in this region.

So unless you're willing to get a proper cert, this market probably isn't the best idea for you.

So far as the 'nanny' jobs - offering to keep someone for up to 90 days means that they most likely aren't going to bother to get you any paperwork. It's still illegal to work - and remember that you would have to leave the Schengen zone inside your 90 days - no nice trips around after you finish your 3-month working trip. Technically, it's unlikely that you would be caught working without working papers, but that's a risk as well.

Turkey may be a much more realistic option. I suggest you might focus a bit more on it - there's a lively Turkey forum below with lots of expertise that can help you.

[Kiels]

I can't answer all your questions but it is certainly possible to save money in China and Thailand depending on how you live. If you sign the 6 month contract with ASTON, they will give you a bonus at the end which is intended to cover your flight. The cost of living is so low is Asia that you'll find saving to be quite easy if you are careful. In China, even on a wage of 5000 RMB you could save each money to finance a trip to Europe. At Aston you could also choose the 25 hour week contract to get paid 6000 RMB a month. In Thailand, with Mediakids, I got paid 35000 Baht and saved a considerable portion over the semester because the locations they'll put you in are more rural than the more expensive cities. I still travelled a lot in Thailand at the weekends and saved money.

By the way, just for when you're travelling round Europe, have you checked out couchsurfing? Google it and there if you join, people put each other up in their house to meet other travellers and save money on accomodation. Might be worth thinking about to cut costs and meet other people who can show you around the city.