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I blew my first impression
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ShioriEigoKyoushi

Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
Location: Japan

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

-- Last edited by ShioriEigoKyoushi on Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

Imseriouslylost

Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

ShioriEigoKyoushi wrote:

seklarwia wrote:

I did know my stuff unlike many of the of the fresh-faced grads with their totally unrelated BA/BSc who have no work experience let alone teaching experience and not only have never left their country before, but have never even faced the challenge of having to learn a foreign language before.

Weren't you fortunate that your broader experience furnished you with the perspective necessary to recognise how to tackle the situation?

Perhaps when you've had a little more mileage you will become more tolerant of those who have not yet had reached a point in their experience of the world to understand it the way you do.

Shiori

If seklarwia is referring to ALT work, I find this to be a really strange thing to say. Though I haven't been in Japan for a long time, I've already figured out that ALT work is definitely meant for people with no experience (both life and work). A 22-year-old with a degree and no experience is much better suited to be an ALT than a 25-30+ year old with varying experience.

I don't have a BEd or qualifications but I do have a few years teaching experience abroad and I find working as an ALT to be a little degrading. I had the "I'm going to be the best ALT I can be" attitude when I first arrived and after a few days of work that attitude changed into "be the best I can be but learn the language quickly and find an out as soon as possible."

I know there is a such thing as ALTs that run the show in the classroom and have additional responsibilities but is it really worth it to garner more responsibility given the fact that we're never going to get raises or the kind of responsibility that one could actually put on paper? It is an entry-level job in it's very essence. We're assistants in Japan in every sense of the word (unlike my "assistant" job in Korea where I was %100 responsible for everything that went on in all of my classes).

Anyway, on a related but unrelated note... I got told off for not singing today. That's why I'm on here venting. I go to all my co-teachers and ask them "what would you like me to prepare for your class?" They always act surprised, tell me not to prepare anything then expect me to make it up as I go along in class. Sometimes I have no idea what it is they want me to do so I mess it up and then I feel like they're not going to give me any more responsibility because I wasn't able to pull stuff out of my ass fast enough.

Today, I was expected to sing a somewhat esoteric American country song that I've only heard a few times in my life. I didn't get a chance to explain to my co-t that I didn't know the words and everyone in the class had memorized it before so there were no lyrics sheets. It was an open-class in front of the student's parents so it was like a double kick in the nuts. On my way home, I got a call from my dispatch company saying that one of my teachers complained that I wasn't involved enough in her class... so far, we've had three or four lesson plans that were based around pieces of music that I simply didn't know and she won't tell me what they are beforehand even if I ask. Then there is the fact that I like teaching and think teaching songs is something one should do as a treat and not as the basis for a lesson several days a week...

Then there is my other co-teacher who nitpicks everything I do. They must think I'm a retard or something. "Move five inches to the left... I said five inches, not six!" "The second my chalk hits the board you should be in the aisles making sure they're copying" etc. etc.

If they're going to treat me like this then I don't have much incentive to better myself at my job. People who said ALT work was like being a human tape recorder were more right than I feared. It sucks because I actually do enjoy teaching and would do it for a career in a heartbeat (I can't in my home country and I like living abroad so here I am). The school gets an ALT that actually enjoys teaching so they turn around and treat them like every other ALT who just came here for shits and giggles.

End of story: ALT is good for your first year abroad. A 17 year old could move to Japan and do this job with no problems (maybe they should start doing that? Korea was thinking of hiring people with only a High School education for awhile).

On the bright side, I'll probably be able to become fluent in Japanese with all this free time I have. I might even do a second year of ALT just for that alone (I'll supplement it with privates of course). Any more than that, however is delusional. You gotta get into something better.

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

ShioriEigoKyoushi wrote:

seklarwia wrote:

I like how you edited my post there. Why should I be tolerant of the ones who have come to party (if you re-read my original post, you'll see that is who I'm actually giving a description my school's previous ALTs) and make it harder for the ones who may not have much experience but genuinely want to learn?

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

Imseriouslylost wrote:

I know there is a such thing as ALTs that run the show in the classroom and have additional responsibilities but is it really worth it to garner more responsibility given the fact that we're never going to get raises or the kind of responsibility that one could actually put on paper?

Well if you want to convince your BOE to give you a proper direct hirer job, that would be a reason.
Also word of mouth can be your best friend or your worst enermy if you are looking for better positions around your area or possibly even your prefecture. If you get a rep for being lazy and uncooperative, regardless of whether it's for just or unjust reasons, it will likely spread further than you'd expect and could damage your chances of finding other employment.

Imseriouslylost

Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

seklarwia wrote:

Imseriouslylost wrote:

Even at my worst I'm not "lazy and uncooperative." Me being lazy and uncooperative still has me going up to teachers an hour before class and asking them what they need me to do. The problem is that even if I'm really keen and do this sort of thing, I get about the same hostility as I would if I were to bring a laptop into work (which I don't) and start watch movies on it all day between classes. It's ridiculous.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

Imseriouslylost wrote:

Though I haven't been in Japan for a long time, I've already figured out that ALT work is definitely meant for people with no experience (both life and work). A 22-year-old with a degree and no experience is much better suited to be an ALT than a 25-30+ year old with varying experience.

I think you are really not seeing the picture here. I'll make sure to pass along your thoughts to the 8 or more ALTs in my area who have been in Japan doing that sort of work for 10, 15, 20 years. They'll come a'knocking on your door with a different viewpoint.

Quote:

I don't have a BEd or qualifications but I do have a few years teaching experience abroad and I find working as an ALT to be a little degrading.

Since you haven't been in the biz very long, we should probably cut you some slack on this one. Not every ALT is a class clown or edutainer. Learn to aspire for more (see below).

Quote:

That mindset is for people who think they will stay in that one employer's slot forever. Reach higher and imagine that you will probably change employers several times in your career. Each accomplishment you put on the resume makes you more valuable. I can't say how much more it will pay, but who's to say? Think outside the box more.

Quote:

It is an entry-level job in it's very essence. We're assistants in Japan in every sense of the word (unlike my "assistant" job in Korea where I was %100 responsible for everything that went on in all of my classes).

If you prefer the 100% responsibility, go back to Korea. You said it yourself when you wrote that in some cases in Japan, you do have that much responsibility, too! Find them and relish in them if that's what you want. Otherwise, get better qualified and move up.

I came here in 1998 with nothing more than a TESL certification in hand to go with my BS and MS in science. I went from eikaiwa to private HS to university. It can be done.

Quote:

Sometimes I have no idea what it is they want me to do so I mess it up and then I feel like they're not going to give me any more responsibility because I wasn't able to pull stuff out of my ass fast enough.

I don't get it. Are you complaining that you want responsibility like Korea, then complain when it is thrust upon you? Learn to think on your feet more. It's the name of the game in TEFL anywhere.

Quote:

On my way home, I got a call from my dispatch company saying that one of my teachers complained that I wasn't involved enough in her class...

And, did you explain thoroughly as you are doing here that you didn't have time to prepare? Sometimes (perhaps often) complaints are hollow, but employers need a bit of shoulder shaking to make them realize that.

Ex.
"Mr. Glenski, we've had complaints in your class."

"Oh, really? What is it?"

"Your students in Class X said you weren't using the textbook enough."

"Oh? Gee, we used it for half the class, and then when the material ran out, I had other stuff to do as the students themselves asked me to do the week before."

"But some of them complained..."

"Wait. You first said all, now you said some. How many complained?"

"Uh............ well, it was just Mariko."

"Ahem. One student? You know Mariko is a complainer anyway."

"Uh, oh, yes you're right. Um, well, forget it."

Quote:

If they're going to treat me like this then I don't have much incentive to better myself at my job.

You don't need them for such incentive. Suit yourself and improve yourself. However, since we are only getting your side of the story, I'd like to know theirs. As that's impossible, we can only speculate that they are either horrible JTEs, or there is more to it than you portray. Have more of an open mind, and try to learn what they are saying. If they micromanage you that much, perhaps there is a grain of wisdom there that you should take the time to learn, or perhaps you should do a little introspection as to whether you are the perfect teacher you think you are with no room for improvement. Step back and reconsider how you do things in the classroom.

Quote:

End of story: ALT is good for your first year abroad. A 17 year old could move to Japan and do this job with no problems

Not end of story! If you even imagine that we are here and have the potential to make a difference instead of perpetuating the notion that we are useless in the classroom except to take instruction from a JTE on how to stand, then perhaps you shouldn't be in this biz. What have you brought to the bargaining table/classroom anyway to show you are a serious professional? No BA in education. Very little experience. A fairly complaining attitude. Why should they treat you any differently?

Ernstern14

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 5

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:06 am Post subject:

Thank you for all the great posts. I have completed my first two days of teaching my classes as the sole teacher. They went well, I definitely have a lot of room for improvement, but my managers are happy and I think are almost over that bad first impression I gave. In order to get over the first impression my managers had of me as inconsiderate and shy/serious I went above and beyond to be considerate and have a welcoming personality. I made sure to always seem VERY interested in what my managers said, in what anybody said for that matter, I brought in lunch for everyone, I smiled non-stop, I agreed with everything (especially criticism) and I overall tried to have a positive attitude about the whole situation. This seems to have worked so far and I hope that things will only go up from here. Glenski, I have a question for you about your last post. You gave an example of how one could conduct a conversation with their employer when their employer gives criticism, and you put a line on there that said "Wait. You first said all, now you said some. How many complained?" I do not see where Employer X mentioned "all" when referring to who complained in the class, are you suggesting we put words in our employers mouths in order to "shake their shoulders" and take the blame off ourselves?

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:45 am Post subject:

Ernstern14 wrote:

I do not see where Employer X mentioned "all" when referring to who complained in the class, are you suggesting we put words in our employers mouths in order to "shake their shoulders" and take the blame off ourselves?

The employer said, "Your students in Class X said you weren't using the textbook enough." The employer does says the entire class complained initially, so he did not put words in the employers mouth at all. And I don't see how you interpreted "shake their shoulders" as meaning pass the blame. In that conversation he was basically demonstrating a method to make you employer realise that a complaint was hollow and not to be taken seriously at all. And that employer had also blown a single complaint from a troublesome student into a major class complaint in his mind but the worker has made him realise that his mistake. So in truth there was no real complaint and thus no need to start finger pointing in the first place.

If there is some blame to be had (and from the your stories its clear you were misunderstood but there were a couple of things you could have done to prevent them from happening so you do need accept a little, too) you should be face up and apologising; not giving excuses and most certainly not trying to pass the buck.

OneJoelFifty

Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:03 am Post subject:

Teaching is serious business.

GambateBingBangBOOM

Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:14 am Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

Imseriouslylost wrote:

End of story: ALT is good for your first year abroad. A 17 year old could move to Japan and do this job with no problems (maybe they should start doing that? Korea was thinking of hiring people with only a High School education for awhile).

Japanese schools are very often very, very hierarchal, more-so than the rest of Japan (leading a drop in the number of people who want to be teachers). Many schools put a lot of emphasis on the in-group / out-group culture. One of the functions of the term "ALT" or "AET" is simply to emphasize that the foreigner is out-group- they are not a 'real' teacher (regardless of experience, responsibilities and education). When Japanese teachers start saying things like you need to be six inches to the left etc, maybe there's a pedagogical reason (like students can't see the board because you're in the way) or maybe they just want to emphasize that they are the boss (possibly they feel insecure of their English ability. Possibly they don't trust you to not embarrass them in front of the class. If they are worried that you will quit, many Japanese people are more likely to start trying to micromanage everything. it's the opposite of what most half-decent managers in English speaking countries would do, but the entire Japanese education system is designed to produce people able to take direction from the top. By that kind of behaviour, Japanese managers simply scare employees into not quitting on them [it's very embarrassing for Japanese employers to have someone quit on them- to the point where they will sometimes just lie and say that the person who quit was fired. If people quit on them, it suggests that they weren't able to control their employees]).

Sure there are ALT jobs that a 17 year old could do. There are also jobs that would be very difficult to do without some sort of post-graduate qualification in Applied Linguistics or TESOL.

Here's an example: For things like drinking parties, they can use the term 'AET' to not invite the foreigner, by saying 'oh, this is a party that's ONLY for teachers.' Especially in cases where the foreign teacher actually does a large amount of grading, material development and curriculum development, that kind of thing would automatically be called racist and not allowed in English speaking countries. But the reality in this situation is that they just don't want you there. And they need a way to exclude you. It's true that these drinking parties are how they get to know each other better and after the beginning lose that tightness that so many people have in the staff-room all of the time. But they don't want you there, because they don't want to look at you as a person. They want to look at you as an AET, a temporary non-teacher. Or else they don't want you to see them as anything of than a 'teacher' someone who stands with their ankles together and toes apart, with their hands folded in front of them while they spout knowledge that students soak up (or not, if the students are asleep). They are worried that they simply won't feel comfortable because they don't look at you as a professional person in the same way they see the Japanese teachers.

I think one thing that is being missed here is just what exactly occurs in a classroom taught by Japanese teachers. They go from page one to page two to page three until they've finished the text. They give tests every few weeks or so. A teenager could do the actual teaching part of their job, too. And that's not all THAT much different than what many teacher in the k-12 sector do in English speaking counties, either. But the actual classroom time isn't the main focus of the Japanese teacher's job- it's acting like and being seen as a 'teacher', a role-model for the students (and that's something that they don't see foreigners as able to do, because of the 'We Japanese Are Different'� culture that is emphasized in the education system even more than outside of it).

Imseriouslylost

Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

Glenski wrote:

I know that I want to change employer's next year but how can I move up instead of moving side to side? Most dispatch companies seem to offer pretty much the same thing regardless of how long you've been around. I'll do some research on it but the only people I've met in my company who are probably making more than me are the ones who work at one of the head offices.

Quote:

I came here in 1998 with nothing more than a TESL certification in hand to go with my BS and MS in science. I went from eikaiwa to private HS to university. It can be done.

With those same qualifications or did you have to get more? I don't have an MA.

Quote:

I don't get it. Are you complaining that you want responsibility like Korea, then complain when it is thrust upon you? Learn to think on your feet more. It's the name of the game in TEFL anywhere.

The examples I gave of being told to sing a song without knowing what song it would be/knowing the words and the other example of a nit picky teacher who will boss me around for shits and giggles. This isn't the kind of added responsibility one could ever thrive under, it's just being jerked around. If they gave me a bunch of work to do I would do it. The thing is, they don't. The stuff they jerk me around with isn't something that I (anyone) could anticipate or prepare for.

If they told me to teach the entire class by myself... I'd do it (gladly)! I've been going to the classes five minutes early so I can talk to the students/do something before the JTE walked in. I don't think the JTEs like it very much but hey, my sanity...

Quote:

No, I don't really complain offline. I just said "sorry" a bunch of times, said I'd try to do better etc. I don't want to get fired. If it keeps happening though I can't promise that I'll neglect to tell my employer, it is annoying.

Quote:

I know I have a lot of room for improvement and I don't think of myself as a perfect teacher. A few years teaching experience pales in comparison to what my JTEs have which is a major reason I don't talk back or get sassy with them. I know that in this culture, talking back or being defiant will get you absolutely nowhere.

Their story is... I can't imagine it would be very much. I don't talk back, I'm always on time, I try my best... I've heard of schools hating/resenting then firing ALTs for little things like dress code violations (knew one guy who got fired from a school for wearing jeans) or being too quiet in the classroom. If they're that picky with ALTs and if ALTs are that disposable then it wouldn't be such a stretch to realize that they didn't like me very much. Aside from that, I can't really think of anything I've done, anything that makes sense anyway, that would make me deserving of resentment.

Actually, it's been like this since day one. The first week I went to work, I wore a suit and tie, sat patiently in my chair and tried to get involved somehow. I didn't do anything out of the ordinary. When cleaning time came around, I picked up a mop without being asked and went to work. I have about as much of an idea as to why they don't like me as you do.

Quote:

I think BEds are worthless but I don't pretend like everyone thinks that. JTEs just take a test after their BA to become teachers, right? Not much different than me. Either way, I know that I'm seen as pretty low on the totem pole, regardless. A) I'm a foreigner B) I'm a foreigner C) I'm a foreigner D) I have no experience teaching in Japan (which means no experience to them) and E) I'm not much more than half the age of the next youngest teacher in the office.

Some of it makes sense (see above). I didn't expect to be treated like royalty or anything. Actually, one of the only ways I know that I'm treated differently than my peers who work for the same company is the fact that other people have told me things like "my co-workers are so friendly and nice", "even the ones who don't speak English are nice to me" and "I've already been out to three Enkai in the last month!"

Me: the only people I talk to at work are the other teachers who smoke in the smoking room. I haven't been invited to the Enkai if there has been one (I don't know). Not really anyone talks to me. Oh, and I actually get along fine at my Elementary School. I just don't count that as I only teach there once a week. There is a huge difference with how I'm treated at the ES and how I'm treated at the JHS.

I don't have a complaining attitude, I don't know where you get that from. Of course I'm complaining on here but that's what this website is for. I do it here so I don't have to do it in real life. I, seriously, have never complained once at my school or in front of my company, both here and before I came here. I use the internet to vent.

Bread

Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:17 am Post subject:

I've also noticed a difference between elementary and junior high levels. In elementary, I seem to be 100% one of the "specialist" teachers who come in anywhere from 1-5 days per week and don't have their own homeroom. Science teacher, nutrition teacher, music teacher, etc. Those are the people who talk to me the most, too. I don't expect to be invited to any enkais or anything. At junior high, I was pretty much treated as a regular faculty member, maybe just because I was there 4 days a week when I was doing junior high. Expected to go to enkais and events, most of the teachers talked to me once they realized I could speak enough Japanese to hold a conversation. I've got to say I prefer the elementary style. I have pretty much total control of my lessons, and when they go well I feel good about it. I also hate being forced to give up 5000-7000 yen and a night of my time to go to enkais. There's a lot less take-home work. I'm just "the English guy" who comes in, does his thing, and leaves. Also WAY less common to be used as a tape recorder in elementary.

Imseriouslylost

Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:37 am Post subject:

Bread wrote:

I've got to say I prefer the elementary style. I have pretty much total control of my lessons, and when they go well I feel good about it. I also hate being forced to give up 5000-7000 yen and a night of my time to go to enkais. There's a lot less take-home work. I'm just "the English guy" who comes in, does his thing, and leaves. Also WAY less common to be used as a tape recorder in elementary.

Yes, at the Elementary school I work at, I just go in... prepare from Eigo note (we go by that curriculum exclusively) for a couple hours then I teach several classes a day practically unassisted. People talk to me a lot more in the Elementary school and I can even practice my Japanese with the non-English speaking faculty. It's pretty comfortable.

I don't really like teaching the wee-ones though. Grade 5-6 are all right, Grades 1-4 and the special education classes drain me pretty bad. If I could only do the exact same thing at my JHS, I'd have nothing to complain about!

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

Imseriouslylost wrote:

Quote:

Perhaps you do need to say something other than "sorry". You can speak up without being sassy or defiant.
It might be a bit painful for your pride, but play up to their egos and feelings of superiority when you speak to them.
Something along the lines of:
"I really want our classes to go well together, but I don't yet have your level of teaching experience to be able to think up activities on the spot. If you could just tell what grammar article or page number in the textbook you'll be up to for our class, then I can have some activities prepared just in case they are needed. And could you give me a list of all the songs the students sing and you plan to teach. I really would like to participate in the class but I simply don't know any of the songs so I need to look them up and study the words/music."

I think that if these teachers are as old as I think they are, they might simply be threatened by your presence, not confident in their English ability in the presence of a native and scared you are going to show them up in front of the students. These teachers likely have no training in TT, have no idea how to use an ALT, probably have their set methodology dating back 20 years ago that most certainly didn't include some random foreigner. It might also be possible that they have had to work with one of the many hellish ALTs out there in the past.
It's important to really look at this from their view. I'm not condoning their mistreatment of you, but if you can understand why these problems have arisen, then perhaps you can then come up with ways to start closing the rift.

Quote:

Me: the only people I talk to at work are the other teachers who smoke in the smoking room. I haven't been invited to the Enkai if there has been one (I don't know). Not really anyone talks to me. Oh, and I actually get along fine at my Elementary School. I just don't count that as I only teach there once a week. There is a huge difference with how I'm treated at the ES and how I'm treated at the JHS.

I don't mean this to sound like patronising question, but have you actually tried approaching and speaking to the other staff yourself?
Our main smoking area was a great place for me, because its just outside and clearly visible from anywhere in the main staff room. The rest of the faculty often saw me having a laugh with the sports teachers who had little or no English ability at all. Many teachers saw that not only did I care as little about their English ability as they did about my Japanese ability, but that a lack of a common language didn't have to be a barrier between us. If your smoking area is hidden, it quite possible that only those other smokers have realised that you aren't going to eat them if they don't speak perfect English.

As to Enkai, you should ask. It could be that they don't want you there, but it could also be that they are scared that you might feel isolated if no English speakers are attending, or that they have some how got the idea that you are busy out of school hours - like if you rush out of school at a set time everyday, they might believe you have something to do.
These parties are a good time to break the ice with other staff. Not only are many teachers far too busy to approach in school time, but a little alcohol and good atmosphere will often make them feel a lot less self consciencious around you.

Quote:

I don't have a complaining attitude, I don't know where you get that from. Of course I'm complaining on here but that's what this website is for. I do it here so I don't have to do it in real life. I, seriously, have never complained once at my school or in front of my company, both here and before I came here. I use the internet to vent.

Whilst you're right not to complain and vent at school, you need too remember that you are a human being with thoughts and a voice; their nothing wrong with using them, just be tactful when you do.

Bread

Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Wow, you've gone the distance!

seklarwia wrote:

Our main smoking area was a great place for me, because its just outside and clearly visible from anywhere in the main staff room. The rest of the faculty often saw me having a laugh with the sports teachers who had little or no English ability at all. Many teachers saw that not only did I care as little about their English ability as they did about my Japanese ability, but that a lack of a common language didn't have to be a barrier between us. If your smoking area is hidden, it quite possible that only those other smokers have realised that you aren't going to eat them if they don't speak perfect English.

This is very true. I make a point of trying to strike up a small conversation in Japanese with teachers that I've never spoken to whenever I get a chance. A comment about the kids, a comment about the artwork they're grading, asking where something is, asking about a school event, asking which floor something is on, asking what the deal is with the school pets, even information that I already know, just something to let them know that they have the ability to communicate with me. It really helps a lot.

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