Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:59 pm Post subject:

Dear LCK,

So, this is prescribing?

"To any EFL teachers who are thinking about working in Saudi,

So, you have two choices: you can believe 7atetan's version:

" . . . it is NOT necessary to walk on eggshells in a Saudi classroom and that topics lending themselves to serious discussion CAN be broached, so long as one knows one's role and has common sense."

or you can believe mine (and, I believe, Citizenkane's):

" . . , During my time in the Kingdom, I personally knew a lot of teachers who ran into problems by doing so (i.e. . . . bringing up what are generally considered taboo topics there in class.)"

"Maybe you got away with discussing such subjects in class, but many teachers have got into serious trouble for discussing far less contentious issues."

Should you go to Saudi and follow 7atetan's example, I wish you all the luck in the world. "

It doesn't seem "prescriptive" to me, but maybe your definition is different from mine.

What bothers me about 7atetan's posts isn't the fact that s/he disagrees with me, it's that his/her anecdotes about how one can/should teach in Saudi may lead those who are thinking about going there or neophytes there into the kind of classroom behavior that, in my experience (and that of most other posters here,) is not only ill-advised but can lead to dismissal.

Regards,
John

7atetan · Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:41 pm Post subject:

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

johnslat · Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject:

Dear 7atetan,

My congratulations on having boldly gone where few, if any, of us more timid souls would would ever dare. I, for example, survived Vietnam, the Iranian Islamic Revolution, and the Scuds that hit Riyadh. But in my nineteen years in the Kingdom, I never ventured to bring up in class such matters as " . . . the banning burqas and hijabs, news items about Coalition operations in Afghanistan, Saddam, the famous cartoons, Sudan, Somalia, terrorism, women's rights, civil liberties, status of minorities in the K.S.A. and so on."

On the other hand, that may have something to do with my lasting nineteen years there.
How long did you say (or did you say?) that you taught there?

Regards,
John

7atetan · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:17 am Post subject:

lazycomputerkids · Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Posts: 360 Location: Tabuk

I contributed to the thread to make a point that experiences will vary and challenge John and VS' interpretation of 7athetan's experience as aberrant and harmful.
But not to dismiss John and VS' experience, which is clear: Teachers have been dismissed over issues of topic appropriateness. Students, unhappy with a grade, can/have exploited the matter.
I chimed in because John and VS were suggesting 7athetan's post misinforms potential teachers while their experiences do not. A report of relative freedom from a teacher (7athetan) in Saudi Arabia was met with responses of incredulity and sarcasm. And there's no reason for it-- It's merely an experience contrary to many. I think it should be challenged, but not in terms of protecting or sheperding anyone.

johnslat · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject:

Dear 7atetan,

" . . . I believe in vigorous academic, scientific inquiry"

I believe in teaching EFL or ESL, but I'd love to get employed to teach what you were teaching.

Regards,
John

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject:

Test for Echo...

NCTBA

johnslat · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:37 pm Post subject:

Dear LCK,

And what about you? What texts are you using? Are you "pushing the envelope" by following 7atetan's methodology of "vigorous academic, scientific inquiry" and exploring such topics as "" . . . the banning burqas and hijabs, news items about Coalition operations in Afghanistan, Saddam, the famous cartoons, Sudan, Somalia, terrorism, women's rights, civil liberties, status of minorities in the K.S.A. and so on?"

If so, I'd be interested is hearing how that's working out for you.

Regards,
John

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

johnslat · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject:

Dear 7atetan,

Well, at least you're in good company: Socrates, Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, Bertrand Russell.

But none of them, I think, were employed as EFL teachers in Saudi.

Regards,
John

lazycomputerkids · Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Posts: 360 Location: Tabuk

johnslat · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject:

Dear LCT,

johnslat wrote:
Are you "pushing the envelope" by following 7atetan's methodology...
This is what I meant by "prescription" . . ."

Perhaps I am wrong, but if you see the purpose of 7atetan's posts as being strictly "experiential" (t.e. descriptive) and devoid of any "prescriptiveness,"I would call that disingenuous.

So, you really don't think 7atetan is advocating his "methodology" as being the "right" or "better" way to teach in Saudi?

"I did my job well, without ruffling anybody's (students' or managers') feathers and, hopefully, WITH teaching the students a thing or two, or at least planting a seed of rational critical thinking in them."

There is, by the way, a long thread that touches on this topic in the General Forum:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=79748

Regards,
John

7atetan · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject:

Dear 7atetan

How about that? Gossip and calumny get rehabilitated.

"I cordially invite them to coitally mate off."

And likewise - I'm sure you'll be able to accomplish that alone.

Regards,
John