Job Discussion Forums

Last Buffalo · Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 5

I'm going to start teaching at a school grades 1-12 next year in Shanghai and I have never taught in China before. Does anyone have any general recommendations for keeping your students interested and involved.

When I've taught language classes here in the states, my most successful times have been incorporating games and trying to keep the students (all between 10-13) as active as possible while in class. Is this style of teaching appreciated in China? I know this is a super broad topic, but I'm hoping to start a discussion on the culture gap within the classroom and the best way to work around it. Mr. Green

killian · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:47 am Post subject:

1-12? get them to be more specific which classes. everything will be fine. the kids will pick up on your enthusiam level. keep em laughing.

Cairnsman · Joined: 22 Jun 2009 Posts: 203

killian · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject:

yeah, i am lucky. i only get 65 students per class.

Last Buffalo · Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 5

Is there anything that normally works in an American middle-school setting that would be inappropriate or ineffective in a Chinese one? I know kids are kids, but has anyone encountered anything in the culture gap that's been troubling or at least worth noting?

Halapo · Joined: 05 Sep 2009 Posts: 140 Location: Jiangsu, China

Honestly, in that age range, the students stop playing games in all their other subjects. Its hard to say when it really starts ( the pressure to get good grades that is), but every 3 years, their scores decide if they go to the No.1 school for the next level. At some point school becomes do-or-die. I tutor only one student in the age you are talking about, but she behaves like a serious high school student ( probably because her sister is a high school teacher at my school) and she expects me to teach her, not play games or make things fun. Plus I get a good look at the work books from her other subjects, there is defiantly no fun happening there.

For example, self-directed learning, or taking a personal interest in a scholastic subject? Not going to happen with most (if not all) younger Chinese students ( and that's really not much different then any child that age). If you give them free time in class to work, they will do nothing ( goes for any kid I guess, but in China, odds are you will be the first to try to teach them that way). If you tell them to read something, they will read it without complaint. The teacher directing and controlling every aspect of class, that's normal to them.

Asking them to be creative is often the first step in a hard class. If you guide them along, a lot of extra hand-holding, you can get them to be creative in the end. If you spring the creativity to soon, you lose them, or their shyness (fear of being openly-and-rightly-mocked, for-they-made-an-error by their classmates) comes out. Actually, with the younger ones, I am thinking creativity might not be totally stifled ( I have some very creative drawings from the younger children of teachers at my school), but English ability my hinder the expression of that creativity. The younger ones will probably have the most open and honest excitement, the older ones will be guarded about creativity and enthusiasm.

Some basic topics to avoid; Japan, Chinese-related history (unless you know the Chinese version), any negative social critique about China (no matter how mild, educational or true in your mind), sex/intimacy/relationships is not something teachers talk about with students (I can lose control of a class of 17 year-old's for 10 minutes if I say I think Zhang ZiYi is cute), wolves ( they just can't accept the idea that wolves have good qualities, same with cats and dogs too... their view of some animals is very different than Western cultures), racial equality (they get the idea that everybody can do anything, but they only believe it when they see it, on a case by case basis. This seams to be true for Chinese adults to, just ask them about Black or Muslim people, they believe only what they know, and most that all comes from movies).

Don't make fun of Bruce Lee. You can make fun of Jackie Chan however...

killian · Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:00 am Post subject:

middle school 1: the kids are still kids.
middle school 2: by now alot of the boys have already dropped out. a bit more serious. the rambunctiousness of year 1 is replaced by more "work-a-day" perspective.
middle school 3: even more boys disappear. tone of class is much more solemn. the only kids left have aspirations of highschool. they don't have me teach third year as the students are too busy studying for high school entrance examination.

highschool 1: happy kids but they know school isn't to be fun. slogans (in chinese) such as "endure three years of bitterness to find success" are on the classroom walls.
highschool 2 and 3: here they schedule the foreign teacher as the students are too busy studying for the college exam.

things i have noticed:

everything centers around the exam. "oral english" isn't on the exam. know your place accordingly.

the chinese educational system has too many kids and if kids drop out such is a fact of life.

the kids at all level (for lack of a better term) feed off your vibe.

askiptochina · Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Beijing

killian · Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:02 am Post subject:

deepest apologies. "here they DON'T schedule..."

sorry.

dakelei · Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 351 Location: USA

Not true. Most "Senior 3" students do not study Oral English with a foreign teacher but many Senior 2 students do. There IS an important change coming down the pike. An exam for Oral English is being incorporated into the "gaokao" and will, in fact, count for 10% of the entire gaokao score. This will begin next academic year. The test itself will actually be administered in March rather than June with the rest of the exam. I've attended only one meeting about all this so I hardly qualify as an expert. I view this news as a mixed bag for us who teach high school. It will be nice in a way that what we do will now be taken much more seriously BUT it will also, well, suck that what we do will be taken much more seriously. If one's students fail the exam in droves he or she will quickly be pointed toward the nearest exit. From what I have seen and heard about the exam if it graded at all objectively and fairly MANY students will fail it miserably. I've experimented in my classes with some of the things the students will be asked to do and a fairly large percentage simply cannot do them. Granted, I'm in a somewhat backwater city and my high school is only the third best here. But the exam is hardly "easy." One section will require students to utter several coherent sentences somewhat spontaneously and with no script. Anyone who has taught high school students here knows how difficult it is for them to do that. Another section will simply require students to read a section out loud. That shouldn't TOO bad as long as the vocabulary isn't too advanced. Another asks students to repeat something they hear spoken. That should present no major problems. It's the speaking without a script section that concerns me the most followed by reading words they may not have ever had to speak out loud before. Today I was practicing the phrase "reasonably priced" and it was torture. 80% or more of the students butchered it. Even a word like "spicy" presented major problems. We have our work cut out for us.

juanisaac · Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Posts: 9

I also teach at a Senior Middle School and from day one I told my students not to give one word answers but to use complete sentences. About 60% of the class does that now, with the other 40% just sleeping or speaking in Chinese. It really galls me how instead of the Chinese students taking responsiblity for their lack of learning, they blame their teachers.
Thank you for the heads up on the new addition to the Gao Kao. My girls are my best students, but most of the boys still do not care. I hope I can light up this fire cracker of an oral section of English of the Gao Kao so they finally pay attention.

Voldermort · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 597

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

Neilhrd · Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 233 Location: Nanning, China

I'd like to make tfour points:

1. Chinese students see fun and learning as opposites. They cannot imagine that a game is part of learning. Even if you eventually get through to the kids on this it is far more difficult to persuade parents, Chinese teachers and school leaders. Don't think that you will be independent in your class room. Never under estimate the degree of surveillence you will be under. If they don't like what you are doing they will start playing mind games and undermine any progress you make with your class behind your back so introduce the fun cautiously and in stages.

2. If you are going to use games or communicative activities plan them very carefully. Most Chinese students have never heard ANY classroom language in English. Nowadays I teach mainly college students but even at that level it is common for them not to understand "Turn to page 16," let alone instructions for how to do a game or activity they have never seen before. You will have to pre teach instructions, mime, model and demonstrate everything and be patient.

3. Western humour doesn't work in Chinese classrooms. Chinese kids do have a sense of humour but it is different from the western one. Let laughter come naturally don't try to teach it.

4. The private school I work for have been trying to start classes to teach oral English to prepare for the new style Gaokao. I have done several demos and am familiar with the format of the test. In my view IF the test is administered fairly less than 0.1% of students in Nanning will pass. However we haven't signed up a single student for these classes and I believe that students are being deliberately prevented from attending. Keeping foreigners out of the Gaokao is a line in the sand with the Education Bureau here. So don't expect to be involved in exam classes in Chinese middle schools or high schools.

Incidentally I have heard a rumour that the Chinese teachers already know their students have no chance of passing the speaking module of the Gaokao. Instead of improving their English one well connected school has exploited the fact that the test is computer based similar to TOEFL. They already have a device installed on their computers which allows the best English speaker in the class to hear the question and give his/her response before the others who then hear the response and repeat it for their own answer.

I must emphasise that this is just a rumour but it would fit with the prevailing mentality here. If anyone has heard the same story or other nefarious tactics I would be interested to know.

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

I'm always saying that it is a huge mistake to say that "these people are like this"; not talking about Chinese, but any culture. BUT one thing that really does seem to be different is that "cheating" on tests in China is not really cheating, it's "helping". It is the single most obvious cultural difference I've seen. The rumor cited in the previous post would not surprise me in the least if it were true.