Job Discussion Forums

carolcroach · Joined: 31 Mar 2010 Posts: 5 Location: Antalya, Turkey

I really appreciate the opportunity to benefit from other instructors' experiences--good and bad. IT'S a HUGE HELP! But, frankly, a lot of the information is pretty discouraging. I have an MA-TESOL and have taught ESL for many years in U.S. at the community college/university level. I can't imagine more satisfying, fun work! I know that EFL is different, but I was counting on a certain amount of sincere effort from students and responsible treatment from employers. (Yeah, I know the pay isn't great--but that's not even what I'm most worried about.) What I'm hearing is that in many private secondary schools and even in some universities, lots of the students regard English class as playtime and approach the class with something between indifference and adolescent-style disdain. I want to actually teach--with creative, communicative methods, humor, and high interest materials. Hard work?--no problem, but what I'm hearing sounds like enduring torture for a paycheck. It's just not what I had in mind at all.

I hope to teach English in western Turkey during the next academic year (or two). I'd love some concrete suggestions about particular schools where I can work legally and find students who are (at least usually) serious about learning English. Salary is an issue, but it's not as important as a good teaching experience. I am still in the U.S. but definitely arriving in Turkey May 30. Haven't settled on a city--maybe Istanbul? Eskisehir? Bursa? Alana? Will probably travel for a month--then settle somewhere to study intensive Turkish. Would LOVE to have a job and a work permit by September. Am I dreaming?

BTW, I'm past middle age and will be with my husband. We'd like to be in a vibrant city where we can become friends with colleagues and neighbors over the next two years. We don't, however, need a flashy nightlife.

This forum is a lifeline right now--THANK YOU for any help you can offer!

billy orr · Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 229

Well I for one am pretty sure you can find the teaching situation you want in Turkey, but it may take you a bit of time. The first job may not provide you with what you hope for, but will give you the opportunity to make contact with people who can point you in the right direction. There are an awful lot of duff jobs in Turkey, with education and learning English treated just as a commodity or a rite of passage, but there are also many good jobs too.

The city you describe sounds like İzmir to me, have you considered looking there? Antalya is also expanding rapidly, but may not yet provide the environment you are looking for.

You may be in a job with work permit applied for by September, but actually getting the permit will take longer.

Good luck to you.

MarkN · Joined: 22 Apr 2010 Posts: 14

Carol

I would like to give you a positive answer for your query but sometimes the hinest one is the most appreciated.

After 3+ years here I believe tha it will be xtremely difficult to find they job you are looking for as described above.

Best to stick to privae universities and avoid the derdshanes like the plague. Insist in everything in writing. And remember that there are many of us who have been here for years that are looking for the exact same position as well so compettion is tough--

Best of luck
Mark

TeachEnglish · Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 239

I agree with Mark.. but I will add, if you are not in need of better pay, maybe you should try some state universities because they seem to have better students. By better I mean, better behaved and more motivated. If you go to a private university, I would ask about rules and punishments for students because private universities don't seem to have as many rules for students as they do for the teachers. Good luck..

Otterman Ollie · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:38 am Post subject:

In a nutshell, what you would like is what we all want, but it an't here. You get one or the other, state or private. State pay is akin to a peasants but the kids are great, private places give you a better lifestyle, but the kids give you hell. You choose.

Ebenezer · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 99

Yes, you described both our dream and our reality perfectly: Dream: "good students". Reality in Turkish high schools: "torture for a paycheck!" I've been teaching in a private k-12 school for 6 years ("oh, it can't be that bad, then" you'll say), no, it's that bad and even worse, but for many different reasons I needed to do it, but I'm now ready to fly away and never ever, I do repeat it: never, ever again, work with children/teenagers. Stick to universities if you want to keep your sanity and avoid crying like a baby in the middle of the night wondering if you should go back to work on the next day or not.

NisaTex · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 24

Eb

Thats pretty pessimistic isnt it?

Otterman Ollie · Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:26 am Post subject:

Er, well, yes and no. I have double that amount of time under my belt and each year I see well qualified and motivated people come and go because they can't handle and they usually say to me " how do you carry on"?

Its surprising what you get used to and how well you learn to adapt when at least the money is right!

eclectic · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 1122

eclectic · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 1122

billy orr · Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 229

As I said earlier in this thread, the OP should not be discouraged, it is possible to find a good work position in Turkey. I teach students who are extremely respectful, pleasant to work with, usually enthusiastic and highly appreciative. I earn twice the sum mentioned in the previous post. In order to find the best job, I would recommend:
1. qualifications. As many as possible, as high as possible.
2. good will and a realistic outlook. The world does not revolve around me. In my career I have never found an employer I could describe as really good. A couple were acceptable. Most had very serious deficiencies. The worst management I have worked for were a secondary school in Birmingham and a certain UK 'charity' that is supposed to be a cultural organisation.
3. dealing with difference. How we react when we encounter different social or working practices is the main factor in determining suuccess or failure in any work situation. It is incumbent on me to fit in, not on them to do what I want.
In my opinion Turkey is a good place to live and work and I feel fortunate to be here.

eclectic · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 1122

awesome, I agree 90% Noone should expect their host country to bend over backwards and provide for example an American environment for an American citizen working abroad. The 10% I can only give a quick example of why they should once in a very while think about that you are not a citizen of THEIR country:

you can't mind-read. They can't expect you to. They have to be frank. And if frankness is a real, REAL RRRRRREEEEEEAAAAAAAALLLLLLL rarity (as is the case where I am right now), there CAN be a severe miscommunication situation that is NOT entirely the guest-worker's fault.

Otterman Ollie · Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:55 am Post subject:

Yea I would go along with most of that, we are always going to be guest workers here even if we take citizenship, speak the language well or even have kids over here. I don't expect them to understand or embrace a western style of thinking or even understand what logic is, more than anything I need to know they know how to handle simple yet fundamental concepts. Starting with truth!

I'm sure we can think of many others !

eclectic · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 1122

Truth,..... I wish the same as you wish. Here where I am, the truth I have come to learn is "keeping the peace" which means NOT telling the truth.......talk about logic, right? I hate it and always will. They say yes when they are DYING inside to say NO, and vice versa. It sucks.

billy orr · Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 229

I believe truth is a universal concept that everyone shares. What differs between cultures is where, when and how truth is expressed, in other words, the discourse. Over the years I have come to realise how incredibly judgemental we are. It is not our fault, it is the result of our education and lifestyles, but that is how we proceed, we make judgements about right or wrong, good or bad. To make a life decision we prepare a list of points for and against. Other discourses can be different.

I have noticed that the primary purpose of discourse in Turkey is to establish empathy, not to make judgements. If you give students a picture to talk about, for example showing world problems such as poverty, water shortage, domestic violence, students from Europe tend to identify what is wrong with a situation and propose solutions. Local students are more likely to give a personal response by talking about their sympathy for the victims or how sad the picture makes them feel.

As a result of the differences in the discourse, judgemental people may see personal response people as na�ve, illogical or even dishonest. Personal response people may see judgemental people as arrogant, overbearing or uncaring.

It is very difficult to get used to different rules of discourse, to accept that the way we naturally express ourselves may be inappropriate in another context. Both as a teacher of English and someone living is a different culture I am intensely aware of the differences, but even so I am not always able to interact with people in a way that I know would be more productive. But I do feel it really is all about pragmatics, not truth or honesty.