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cleonar3
Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:12 am Post subject: TESOL cert from a well-respected U.S. community college? |
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I currently have a B.A. in Communications and I am considering getting a TESOL certificate from a local community college. I am concerned that the certificate won't be respected, as it is only continuing education units (CEU) from a community college. (FYI - the certificate is 11 workshops and 25 hours of classroom observation.)
I realize there is no true regulator for TESOL certificates in the U.S., but would a TESOL certificate from a community college be respected in the ESL teaching community? |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: TESOL cert from a well-respected U.S. community college? |
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| cleonar3 wrote: |
I currently have a B.A. in Communications and I am considering getting a TESOL certificate from a local community college. I am concerned that the certificate won't be respected, as it is only continuing education units (CEU) from a community college. (FYI - the certificate is 11 workshops and 25 hours of classroom observation.)
I realize there is no true regulator for TESOL certificates in the U.S., but would a TESOL certificate from a community college be respected in the ESL teaching community? |
I think you'll find the answer is "it depends" - on the employer, the part of the world where you want to teach (the Euros tend not to want anyone who doesn't hold an EU member passport and who didn't take CELTA or Trinity or, perhaps begrudingly, another course taken in one of those countries). CELTA, Trinity, etc. are not college courses and you don't directly get college credits for taking them (though there might be a college or two out there that will "evaluate" a CELTA or Trinity course and give you college credits for them). Then again, the course you want to take doesn't really get you regular college credits either, does it? What about that 25 hours of classroom observation? Is that you observing other teachers or you being observed by other teachers while you teach? The former, while possibly helpful in that you'll get to see real teachers in action, is pretty much worthless without the latter.
The fact of the matter is that there is no one standard for accrediting TESL courses (e.g. Oxford Seminars doesn't have anything to do with the prestigious Oxford University in England and i-to-i claims to be accredited by certain organizations that are pretty much worthless). What amounts to a "minimum industry standard" is 100-120 course hours with at least six hours of supervised teaching practice with real ESL/EFL students. There are plenty of courses claiming to be "accredited" by this or that entity but you really have to find out whether the entity is qualified to accredit courses (meaning that it has a standard accrediting process for externally evaluating courses, that it regularly re-evaluates the courses, etc. much like the regional entities that accredit American colleges and universities) and that it does, in fact, put schools through a rigorous accreditation process.
Some people here are enamored with brand names (in other words, it's CELTA, Trinity or, maybe, SIT or you're not certified) and, as prospective employers, won't even look at an application from anyone who does not take a brand name course (much like an American employer saying "If you didn't go to Harvard or Yale then you don't have a college degree;" of course, it is an employer's market out there and they plenty of candidates to choose from); but since Americans are very unlikely to even get employment in Europe, you need not worry about them. That leaves the rest of the world. Since many employers won't even have a clue what a community college is (and won't bother to find out), you'll probably have to emphasize that you have a TESOL certificate from x college, a regionally-accredited college recognized by the United States Department of Education (make sure, of course, that it is) since it is not a degree program. There are, of course, some employers that probably won't give it much thought; but those jobs tend not to pay well.
Do you know where you want to teach? If so, check out the forums for that part of the world. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, it depends. Here in Japan, the norm for newbies is not to have any certs at all. Doesn't mean one shouldn't have them, but if employers don't know or care...
So, to repeat the question, where are you thinking of working? |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |
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I'd recommend getting a link up to a specific course- in general, a community college cert should be decent, but there are a few specs that your post doesn't include.
Would you do any teaching as part of this cert, or just observing? How many teachers to an instructor? Who are the instructors?
Best,
Justin
PS-
| Quote: |
| CELTA, Trinity, etc. are not college courses and you don't directly get college credits for taking them (though there might be a college or two out there that will "evaluate" a CELTA or Trinity course and give you college credits for them). |
Your statement that "there might be a college or two" that would offer credit for said courses is not exactly informative. THere are a large number of colleges that have, and routinely do, this.
PPS- Or you can get 5 grad credits for the SIT TESOL Certificate. (http://www.sit.edu/graduate/6711.htm) |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| I know the Open University in the UK offers credits for Trinity/CELTA/DELTA. I think its commonplace. My Trinity was worth 10 points in credit transfer. One full academic year is worth 120 points....so there is a direct relation in the credit transfer Vs time studied |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
I agree, it depends. Here in Japan, the norm for newbies is not to have any certs at all. Doesn't mean one shouldn't have them, but if employers don't know or care...
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To be fair, I think it should be pointed out that more and more a "TESOL Certificate" (meaning it could be a virtually useless weekend at the Y type certificate, though if you show up with an online newb cert from some dodgy freakin' place it would probably count against you rather than for you) is becoming requested. I would say that by now more JETs have them than don't, same with most of the dispatch companies and every single direct hire that I know. It's probably mostly just the eikaiwas, out in rural areas and interac, where it isn't the norm for people to have some sort of TESOL 'qualification' (even if it is just something that really means nothing at all other than that the person decided to give a fly by night company a bunch of money). |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Gambate,
That's nice to know. Can anyone else corroborate this?
Oh, and I suppose that trend has started since the demise of NOVA...? |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Oh, and I suppose that trend has started since the demise of NOVA...? |
Yeah, I think it was slowly starting before that, but I would guess that after NOVA it sort of picked it up a notch or two. Possibly supply and demand, though I don't know how many people working for NOVA had any sort of TESOL qualifications. |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
Your statement that "there might be a college or two" that would offer credit for said courses is not exactly informative. THere are a large number of colleges that have, and routinely do, this.
PPS- Or you can get 5 grad credits for the SIT TESOL Certificate. (http://www.sit.edu/graduate/6711.htm) |
I was being intentionally vague. |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
To be fair, I think it should be pointed out that more and more a "TESOL Certificate" (meaning it could be a virtually useless weekend at the Y type certificate, though if you show up with an online newb cert from some dodgy freakin' place it would probably count against you rather than for you) is becoming requested. I would say that by now more JETs have them than don't.... |
I would say that is not true in my prefecture, nowhere near 50%. I would also say that there probably are, indeed, more JETs with some form of certificate or educational background than ever before. (I don't know about other prefectures, but I get the strong impression that the prefectural board of education in Shizuoka takes the educational component of JET at least as seriously as "internationalization".)
I will send a mail to the prefectural advisor, he will know. Report later... |
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nater
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 6
Location: Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| natsume wrote: |
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
To be fair, I think it should be pointed out that more and more a "TESOL Certificate" (meaning it could be a virtually useless weekend at the Y type certificate, though if you show up with an online newb cert from some dodgy freakin' place it would probably count against you rather than for you) is becoming requested. I would say that by now more JETs have them than don't.... |
I would say that is not true in my prefecture, nowhere near 50%. I would also say that there probably are, indeed, more JETs with some form of certificate or educational background than ever before. (I don't know about other prefectures, but I get the strong impression that the prefectural board of education in Shizuoka takes the educational component of JET at least as seriously as "internationalization".)
I will send a mail to the prefectural advisor, he will know. Report later... |
Please do, I'm considering right now spending the money on a cert and am a little timid about doing so if it won't improve my prospects. |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:47 am Post subject: |
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I stand (very) corrected. He told me the incoming JETs this year have a 8 out of 10 ratio of teaching certificates (he didn't define exactly "certified teacher", I will ask). He also said the incoming JETs are in the 26-35 age range. It seems things are indeed shifting with the JET program.
EDIT: I recieved clarification on what "certified teachers" means. Just like what they sound like; state certification/PGCE. Specifically not TESOL. And those that did not have that had passing 3 kyu and 2 kyu JLPT scores. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| natsume wrote: |
I stand (very) corrected. He told me the incoming JETs this year have a 8 out of 10 ratio of teaching certificates (he didn't define exactly "certified teacher", I will ask). He also said the incoming JETs are in the 26-35 age range. It seems things are indeed shifting with the JET program.
EDIT: I recieved clarification on what "certified teachers" means. Just like what they sound like; state certification/PGCE. Specifically not TESOL. |
I think you may mean specifically not TESOL except for in those few places (although they include Central Canada- the two provinces in Canada that make up just barely less than two-thirds of the national population) where there are university initial-teacher training TESOL programs. Quebec is French so it's not really all that fair, but still, it's not like there aren't people from Quebec on JET (and although they are ALTs in English classrooms, they aren't all English native speakers, either). But in Ontario, university TESL certificates (at one time called a B.Ed in TESOL) take the same length of time as a PGCE/ one-year Post-grad B.Ed and require the same or more in terms of practicum component. Almost everywhere else that kind of a program is called a masters degree (some of them actually require more half courses/ modules/ units than masters degrees in TESOL- if you have a 4year degree, you do 8 units to get a masters in Applied Linguistics in Australia. You need to do 10 units worth to get a certificate in TESL at at least one university in Ontario. In Ontario, it's the prereq to get into a masters degree in TESOL).
If JET is hiring people with a B.Ed to teach math to grades 6 - 9 kids over people with a masters degree in teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages, then there may be something seriously amiss (or seriously amiss with buddy with the masters degree in TESOL who got denied). |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
If JET is hiring people with a B.Ed to teach math to grades 6 - 9 kids over people with a masters degree in teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages, then there may be something seriously amiss (or seriously amiss with buddy with the masters degree in TESOL who got denied). |
I don"t think JET is hiring certified teachers to teach their subject specifically (unless it is TESOL, of course). The PA mentioned his surprise at what he saw, SpecEd teachers, junior high Social Studies, etc., in the incoming pool. Not sure how many (if any) have any kind of TESOL qualifications, and I think this was just his first quick glance through the incoming applications. He said he was going to compile teaching qualification stats for all JETs in Shizuoka this summer, I will report on that when it happens.
Interesting note; there is a woman from Montreal here now who asked if she could teach French, and was denied by the BOE, given the reason that it is not her first language.
It is. And yes, I understand they probably meant her first language is English because she is from Canada and she was hired to teach English in Japan under the assumption that she is a "native speaker", but I think that kind of reasoning (?) strikes most of us as willfully obtuse, and a blatant waste of a potentially very interesting opportunity for "internationalization". It did her. (She is qualified to teach both English and French, I believe under the Canadian regimen gambatte describes above.) |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| natsume wrote: |
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
If JET is hiring people with a B.Ed to teach math to grades 6 - 9 kids over people with a masters degree in teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages, then there may be something seriously amiss (or seriously amiss with buddy with the masters degree in TESOL who got denied). |
I don"t think JET is hiring certified teachers to teach their subject specifically (unless it is TESOL, of course). |
Sorry. I meant people with a B.Ed who are licensed to teach math in their home country, not that they'd be teaching it in Japan. They will be English teachers (ALTs) in Japan (or they may be CIRs, I suppose)
| Quote: |
Interesting note; there is a woman from Montreal here now who asked if she could teach French, and was denied by the BOE, given the reason that it is not her first language. |
If they don't already have a program set up, then it is really a lot of work to start one (hiring teachers, getting textbooks finding space in the curriculum etc), it's very expensive, and the JET job maxes out at five years, which means that once she's gone, there'd be a very good chance that the new French program would be gone, too. |
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