Job Discussion Forums

Dalton · Joined: 30 Apr 2010 Posts: 14

I posted a new topic here last week and, after some extensive reading on this board and others, have become pretty discouraged at the prospect of teaching English overseas. To restate my situation: no degree (deferred indefinitely), scheduled to take my CELTA domestically this fall, teaching experience only as a dance instructor, undecided as to what country I should try but aiming primarily for Russia or Ukraine (I know, I know...).

I guess what I need to hear right now is that it's not a lost cause to pursue TEFL and that there's still lots of golden opportunities for a guy with realistic expectations and a strong work ethic. I know there's a lot of negativity on this board but it seems like lately (over the last few months) it's been 100% gloom. Is it that the world's economy is really so bad for ESL or am I falling prey to the naysayers?

I guess I should point out that I am committed to making a go of this for a few years, not a sex tourist or a criminal and, if my dance teaching is any indication, a halfway-decent teacher. Thanks!

jpvanderwerf2001 · Joined: 02 Oct 2003 Posts: 1117 Location: New York

Don't give up, Dalton.
Having experience in both Ukraine and Russia, I would most definitely recommend the former initially.
Unless things have changed, Ukraine has looser visa regulations and tends to be cheaper than Russia.
My advice: Save up some dough, make copies of any and all certifications you might have, make some copies of your resume, choose a mid- to large-sized city that might interest you, and get on the ground.
Might be your best bet.
Good luck!

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

I started in China with zero relevant qualifications....and 4 years on Im still teaching...it can be done! BUT...what I wisely did was start studying a BA via distance learning (which included a diploma in English language studies), and crammed a Trinity course in during a visit home.

Im now in a strong position to move on and keep on teaching for some time.

jpvanderwerf2001 · Joined: 02 Oct 2003 Posts: 1117 Location: New York

+1 on Nick's idea: If you're going to try to make teaching a long-term, PAYING gig, I would most definitely get a BA online while teaching; it can be done for sub-$6k.
Best of luck!

Mrguay84 · Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 125

I guess it depends on your main motivation. If it's money, then I wouldn't bother (incidentally I was just reading this).
But if you desire travel and adventure with the ability to work almost anywhere (like me) then yeah, go for it.

Variety is the spice of life! I'm itching to get out of here again (UK).

mozzar · Joined: 16 May 2009 Posts: 339 Location: France

Hmm, I'm torn between wanting to encourage him but at the same time: why should someone without a degree get a job teaching? A degree shows commitment and the ability to take something seriously for future progress. Sure, I'm sure we all know exceptions but it's generally the case. Should we molly coddle everyone, or is it best to say: do the time and wait for the rewards?

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

I dont actually hire anyone...and perhaps I never will, but personally, I would take the CELTA holder over a random degree holder anyday. A EFL related degree shows a commitment to EFL, but an unrelated degree doesnt mean much IMO.

Its a moot point perhaps...but that one month and $2000 certificate shows quite a lot of commitment to the actual job the person is applying for. It also says the person may actually have some knowledge (however small) of language teaching.

The unrelated degree just shows me a person followed one plan for education, that may not have worked out, and the person is now falling back on ESL as something to do just because they can.

In the last 6 months I have worked with a number of degree holders, one PHd, and two certified teachers from the US. I wouldnt employ any of these people if I had my own school. Not because they are drunks who chase students (they aren't)...but because their qualifications dont actually relate to this job, and as a consequence....they arent really very good at it.

The person who devotes that one month to a CELTA, should actually graduate with some idea on language teaching, and IMO...is more likely to be a competent language teacher than someone who took an unrelated degree and isnt even committed enough to invest the time in reading a simple book that teaches tenses, IPA, language awareness etc etc.

Like I say...moot point really...but it is something I really believe

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

In the last 6 months I have worked with a number of degree holders, one PHd, and two certified teachers from the US. I wouldnt employ any of these people if I had my own school. Not because they are drunks who chase students (they aren't)...but because their qualifications dont actually relate to this job, and as a consequence....they arent really very good at it

Amen to this. The least successful teachers I've ever worked with have been those with unrelated Phds and experience teaching core subjects- but no TEFL training (or interest in it - they seem to consider themselves above it, somehow).
Ideally, though, a candidate has both a degre (preferably related) AND qualifications in TEFL/TESL. At higher-than-newbie level jobs, this should be the minimum!

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject:

" the person is now falling back on ESL..."

And, it is THIS exact attitude that keeps TEFLers on the lowest levels of esteem amongst employers. People don't understand how hard it sometimes is to get English "across" to some students! Jes' consider how hard it is to get most students to tack on the "s" that makes regular nouns plural...an unique English invention!

NCTBA

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Despite the tone of my post above, I would like to encourage Dalton. He's (she?) is clearly committed to the job to a reasonable degree - getting a CELTA is a responsible step. Most European employers don't really look much at unrelated degrees and (while obviously a degree is desirable) I do know several highly successful teachers who started without one.

I think the advice to get a distance degree asap is useful, but I really thnk it's possible to get a foot in the door with just the CELTA in this part of the world.

Dalton · Joined: 30 Apr 2010 Posts: 14

Thank you all for your excellent responses, they were very helpful and encouraging. I'm glad to hear that employers value the CELTA in the countries I intend to get started in, that's a relief. Also, this correspondance degree sounds like a good suggestion.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

Dalton · Joined: 30 Apr 2010 Posts: 14

Awesome, thanks a lot, man! I will go for it!

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Dalton · Joined: 30 Apr 2010 Posts: 14

Thank you, Glenski, for your candid response. Naturally, I wouldn't think that some informal dance instruction and no degree would put me at the top of any employer's list, and I certainly would not expect an opportunity most people would define as "golden" with such credentials. I guess what I would consider a decent employment opportunity would fit pretty closely with what most North Americans would consider a decent job:being paid on time, a tolerable amount of workplace politics, adequate resources to do the job required, etc.

As my first post asked, I'm basically trying at this point to guage what my options will be post-CELTA and whether, in the state of things ESL-related, it'd be a better idea to just cancel my CELTA enrolment and just blow my $2000 on a new TV. Since you stopped just short of telling me not to bother, I'll assume that your post was more of a reality check than an outright recommendation to give up, and I thank you for that. And, as curt as your tone was, it was actually helpful and , in its own way, encouraging. Thanks!