|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
robertokun
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 199
|
 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| lost devil wrote: |
| wouldn't it be more productive to search for ways to help the system change . . . |
| Quote: |
| . . . while continuing to offer at least the same level of service that ALTs and English teachers through out Japan are currently offering! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lost devil wrote: |
| Thanks for the details Kionon. After reading all the banter going back and forth I keep having the same thought. Have any of you thought that regardless of what we think as foreigners, we are living in Japan, and we are working in the Japanese system. Whether that system is right or wrong based on our home countries rules, laws, and ideals, it is the system we are involved in, and instead of searching for things that are "wrong" (whether legally or not), wouldn't it be more productive to search for ways to help the system change while continuing to offer at least the same level of service that ALTs and English teachers through out Japan are currently offering! |
I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm basically already doing this. I've expressed ways in which I know my employer is not following the letter of the law. I have also mentioned how easier they are to negotiate with. So in that sense, I am working within the system, albeit a flawed system.
As for the rest, I'm not, and will never be, a cultural or moral relativist. I think you confuse cultural or national ethical codes with that of personal ethical codes. I no more believe the American system to be inherently better than I believe the Japanese system is inherently worse. They both have flaws and they both have strengths. I will criticise both systems for their flaws, as I will any human system that could be improved.
Just because something is "mine" doesn't make it better, but nor does something being "culturally different" necessarily make it equal. I have immense respect for cultural diversity, largely because most "culture" is window dressing, and the ideals are really the same, and I love to discover the permutations this window dressing can take. On matters of ethics, especially ones that govern inherent rights, I'm afraid you will find me quite inflexible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lost devil wrote: |
| Thanks for the details Kionon. After reading all the banter going back and forth I keep having the same thought. Have any of you thought that regardless of what we think as foreigners, we are living in Japan, and we are working in the Japanese system. |
I try to explain that to people everyday!
| Quote: |
| Whether that system is right or wrong based on our home countries rules, laws, and ideals, it is the system we are involved in, and instead of searching for things that are "wrong" (whether legally or not), wouldn't it be more productive to search for ways to help the system change |
Some come to Japan to do their job or enjoy the culture or both. Others take a bit more responsibility by helping those with questions or problems. No harm in that, is there? I mean, look at all the questions and problems posted on forums!
Some go even further by joining a union and "looking for what is wrong" just so they can resolve problems before naive teachers get involved in them, and so the future is easier to live in. I hope you're not knocking those types of people.
| Quote: |
| while continuing to offer at least the same level of service that ALTs and English teachers through out Japan are currently offering! |
What do you perceive is the "same level of service" that should be continued? There are lots of instructors out there who purposely do nothing or as little as possible in classrooms. Should they continue? That is a poor level of service to offer, and it is one reason why some of us treat these forums fairly seriously when inexperienced and uneducated newbies want to come to Japan.
Whether you consider union volunteers or helpful people on web forums like this, sometimes it is productive to be proactive in seeking out what is wrong. Most of the time, though, it just rears its ugly head and slams you in the face. So, some of us keep records of such things (is that seeking out the wrong/illegal stuff?), so that answers can be disseminated. People don't often read FAQs, so those are not always sufficient. When this forum had FAQs, it was obvious that many newcomers skipped right over them. I've been answering questions, solving problems, and disseminating info for over 12 years on these forums. There is always a need for such people.
What exactly did you mean by seeking out the wrong/illegal things? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lost devil
Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry about that Kionon. I should have split those comments up. I did not mean to direct my comment at anyone inparticular, but rather at the community at large.
As for the other questions directed to me, I am sure that I don't really have an answer that will satisfy most of the people out there. However, I know that there is a certain level that is expected by each BOE and school. If that level is being met, then maintaining that level as the minimum is what I was referring to, and not to each individual ALT's level of quality in the classroom.
As for more details on other things, everyone will just have to wait until I have more time under my belt, or have finished reading other posts that give me more information. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lost devil wrote: |
| As for the other questions directed to me, I am sure that I don't really have an answer that will satisfy most of the people out there. However, I know that there is a certain level that is expected by each BOE and school. If that level is being met, then maintaining that level as the minimum is what I was referring to, and not to each individual ALT's level of quality in the classroom. |
Sure, BOEs have a minimum level:
1) ALT must turn up for work.
2) ALT must be on time.
3) ALT must assist JTEs/HRTs in teaching English.
Now what does "assist JTEs/HRTs in teaching English" mean?
In some schools that might mean walking tape recorder.
In some schools that might mean follow the JTEs lesson plan.
In some schools that might mean contributing ideas, creating lesson plans and activities and leading the class.
In some schools that means being an instant game generator with no prep time because the JTEs lesson plan ran short.
In some schools that might mean teaching the whole class solo because the teachers you're teaching with doesn't even speak English so just sits in the corner doing admin work.
And of course the meaning can vary from teacher to teacher within the same school.
How do decide what the minimum level of service should be when ESID? (The JET motto makes a comeback!)
I think that ALTs who accept the job expecting to do nothing more than be a tape recorder and follow instructions are lazy and give the rest of us a bad name. I most certainly do not believe walking tape recorder should be the minimum level of service expected from an ALT.
But it's a totally different ball game when an ALT wants to actively contribute and participate in the teaching of English, but their JTEs only want them to read the book and look foreign. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Everything seklarwia says is absolutely true in my experiences.
I usually tell the JTE to take a hike if all they do is use me as a human tape recorder. It doesn't last much longer than a few months. I've yet to get into a situation where a head teacher uses me as such or doesn't tell a more junior teacher to knock it off.
Assistant English Teacher != English Teaching Assistant
A TA is not a teacher, and I have no interest in being a TA unless I'm earning a Master's Degree in the process (and then possibly lecturing for the professor anyhow). So far I have had little trouble getting this situation corrected by either the head teacher or the BoE when it occurs.
I recognise this might mean I have been fairly lucky. It is one reason I am wary of changing jobs, among several others I have mentioned before. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fmfmctm
Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think that ALT positions tend to be a bit different sometimes. However , basic professional rules do apply to everyone. Such as be on time if not a bit earlier. Prepare lesson plans ahead of time and together with the other teacher. Lastly, make sure to participate in class and as much if not more than the local Teacher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fmfmctm wrote: |
| I think that ALT positions tend to be a bit different sometimes. However, basic professional rules do apply to everyone. |
Really? Never heard that from an ALT before. Is that an assumption or is that based on actual experience teaching in Japan?
| Quote: |
| Prepare lesson plans ahead of time and together with the other teacher. |
Yep. You do that.
I'd like to see you prepare a lesson plan with a HRT with no English ability - near impossible unless you are quite fluent in Japanese.
Plus some JTEs don't want your input so you forcing ideas on them is not going to win any points and will probably be seen as a threat to their authority; their classroom is their territory, so it's not wise to start putting down scents without permission.
Other JTEs can be quite hostile towards your presence. Afterall, they didn't choose to have some foreigner, often fresh out of uni with little to no teaching experience, come and take up space in the classroom.
And I'm assuming you haven't worked in a Japanese public school before. These are teachers that will be arriving at school way before you and leaving long after you (sometimes at silly hour at night) and whilst you are relaxing at the weekend or in the evening or travelling during the holidays, they will be in meetings, at their school desks or attending to their club activities. Assuming your teacher's welcome your input, it's often not possible (not to mention technically not legal according to 9/10 dispatch contracts  ) to sit down with the JTEs for long if at all to discuss lesson plans.
| Quote: |
| Lastly, make sure to participate in class and as much if not more than the local Teacher. |
How do you propose to do that in a classroom where the teacher is explaining the different uses of past progressive in Japanese to a class full of students with only a year of English under their belt?
I'm not trying to be negative: Just pointing out the reality of being an ALT over here that you may very well face.
A piece of advice that all new ALT hopefuls should follow:
Take all your preconceived ideas about what you think your job will entail, all the info that your recruiter gave you about what your job will likely entail at the interview, all your ideas about what Japanese students are like, all the ideas you have been considering on how you will run things in the classroom and (unless you have actually spent time in Japan not as a tourist or devoted considerable study to it) everything you believe to be true about Japan and its culture. Put them all in a little box. Then drench it in petrol and drop a match on it.
Many of those that come over with too many preconceived ideas about Japan, its culture and education system are normally shocked by how wrong they are. Some of these people have these ideas so set in stone in their minds (and very well may have chosen to come to Japan based on these ideas) that they are unable to accept and adapt to the reality of the situation and are often among the first to succumb to culture shock, which is not something to take lightly! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
|
| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| seklarwia wrote: |
Plus some JTEs don't want your input so you forcing ideas on them is not going to win any points and will probably be seen as a threat to their authority; their classroom is their territory, so it's not wise to start putting down scents without permission.
Other JTEs can be quite hostile towards your presence. Afterall, they didn't choose to have some foreigner, often fresh out of uni with little to no teaching experience, come and take up space in the classroom. |
You're forgetting the third option, the one I always run into. The fresh from university JTE who just got his or her license, has had all but a few weeks of observation, and an entire hour (one freaking hour) of practicum before being given control of a classroom, who is scared to death that your competency will make them look (quite rightly) incompetent. In every school I have been at, I have had one teacher who is like this. Knows jack crap about teaching (not just English, I mean teaching period), whereas I have done the same material for years, taught in my home country and in Korea as well, and had significantly more student teaching than they did. You're darn right they're going to look incompetent. This can cause friction and make it very hard to work with the JTE in question.
| Quote: |
| Take all your preconceived ideas about what you think your job will entail, all the info that your recruiter gave you about what your job will likely entail at the interview, all your ideas about what Japanese students are like, all the ideas you have been considering on how you will run things in the classroom and (unless you have actually spent time in Japan not as a tourist or devoted considerable study to it) everything you believe to be true about Japan and its culture. Put them all in a little box. Then drench it in petrol and drop a match on it. |
Or just watch Azumanga Daioh. It is the most accurate depiction of my daily life available in most English countries.
| Quote: |
| Many of those that come over with too many preconceived ideas about Japan, its culture and education system are normally shocked by how wrong they are. Some of these people have these ideas so set in stone in their minds (and very well may have chosen to come to Japan based on these ideas) that they are unable to accept and adapt to the reality of the situation and are often among the first to succumb to culture shock, which is not something to take lightly! |
I had zero culture shock, honestly. I really am serious about Azumanga Daioh. It prepared me for incompetent, barely functional JTEs, the general school schedule, how much work Japanese teachers supposedly do (but don't really do), how totally insane the kids can be, how often times the grades don't matter, how lots of tests are taken anyway, and a wide variety of socio-cultural phenomenon. Azumanga Daioh, watch it, and believe it. Because, as wacky as it is, it's true.
My parents thought I was pulling their legs... until they came and had permission to observe some of my lessons. They saw situations that were quite aptly demonstrated in that show.
*shrug* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kionon wrote: |
| You're forgetting the third option, the one I always run into. The fresh from university JTE who just got his or her license, has had all but a few weeks of observation, and an entire hour (one freaking hour) of practicum before being given control of a teacher, who is scared to death that your competency will make them look (quite rightly) incompetent. In every school I have been at, I have had one teacher who is like this. Knows jack crap about teaching (not just English, I mean teaching period), whereas I have done the same material for years, taught in my home country and in Korea as well, and had significantly more student teaching than they did. You're darn right they're going to look incompetent. This can cause friction and make it very hard to work with the JTE in question. |
I didn't forget. I just didn't mention it since I doubt this applies to the poster in question.
I haven't been an ALT for long, but I do now work with two JTEs who haven't been teachers for long. I guess I'm lucky. I have already a good a rep in my school so these two welcome my input. And because even the seasoned JTEs at my school are now teaching many students that they didn't have in the last couple of years, they often look to me especially with regards to groupings and whether certain ideas will work because I taught these students last year and they know I take a special interest in the weaker students.
| Quote: |
| Or just watch Azumanga Daioh. It is the most accurate depiction of my daily life available in most English countries. |
I used to watch this all the time. The cat girl always had me in fits! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
