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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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 Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with comments made about language schools. Some are not good, but please don't put all language schools into the same category- which is continually what happens here.
I fear that people comuing to Mexico read these threads and see negativity. Some are bad, but some can be good. After all, how can they continue to operate if the paying students dont come back- something must be right in these situations.
Some language schools are here, and are part of the community and are working very hard to help students learn and newly qualified teacehrs to develop profesionally too.
There is a simple comment to those who don't like language schools. Don't work in them. No one sticks a gun to ones head and makes you work there- if a teacehr doesn't like them then they shouldn't work in one and then - even worse- leave one language school to go to another, then another. Theres more to life than earning a wage in a place you hate.
In my experience, students like course books because they provide a structure to their courses. That was my simple comment. As previously mentioned, of course, course books should not be used as the only resource, but it can be a significant opportunity for language learners to have something to look through when they want to review their work.
Interestingly, how many other courses do not use coursebooks? History? Geography? please, name a subject that works without a coursebook- be it an editorial book, or a self prodiced book.
Course books and creative teaching practices will surely be a way for students to learn. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| gregd75 wrote: |
I agree with comments made about language schools. Some are not good, but please don't put all language schools into the same category- which is continually what happens here.
I fear that people comuing to Mexico read these threads and see negativity. Some are bad, but some can be good. After all, how can they continue to operate if the paying students dont come back- something must be right in these situations.
Some language schools are here, and are part of the community and are working very hard to help students learn and newly qualified teacehrs to develop profesionally too.
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I haven't worked in a language school for quite some time. However, the few private students I have now have given me some insight into how many (not all, of course, gregd75  ) of them operate. Most of my students have attended different schools in Mexico City and have gone through and passed the various levels each school has organized its curriculum around. What they have not been able to learn is how to hold an ordinary conversation in English with a native speaker! They tell me stories of classes taught mostly in Spanish by Mexican teachers who don't have a good command of English. Or they tell me of classes taught by native speakers of the back-packer variety who are not very good teachers. And with classes of 20 or more students, it would be difficult for even an experienced teacher (like me, for instance!) to do a very effective job. It's stories like these that have given me, at least, a not very positive impression of the language school business in Mexico.
How can these schools can stay in business if the students are not satisfied with the "product" they deliver? One answer may be that many people attending these schools don't have a clear idea of what learning a language really entails, hence they are satisfied with the classes they take, that is, until they need to use English in real-life situations and realize that they can't! |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| a not very positive impression of the language school business in Mexico. |
Would it be fair to say that it is probably the same in other countries, too? Would it be fair to say that some universities inflate their students grades so that students pass their language courses too? Do students leave school/college/university courses unable to hold a converstaion with a native speaker too?
Would it be possible that students in your institution could leave the courses claiming that they hadn't learned? Sometimes students don't have expectations of language courses. Sometimes students believe that if they pay for a course, then they dont need to attend, or do homework or do anything ther than the bare minimum asked of them- would the language school be held responsible in this situation? Very often it is.
You know, Im not defending other language schools, but I want to emphasise that there are good and bad businesses / education providers in every country in the world and in every speciality in the field, too.
I just hope that people reading these posts see that its not all language schools (thanks for mentioning this), but it can be any institution in any country.
Standardised testing, such as IELTS, FCE and other Cambridge exams allow students to study in any institution and then compare their learning. The results of students attainment in these exams can really be the measure of a successful course or school. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Standardised testing, such as IELTS, FCE and other Cambridge exams allow students to study in any institution and then compare their learning. The results of students attainment in these exams can really be the measure of a successful course or school. |
... but not necessarily their ability to hold a conversation with a native speaker! |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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I would say that the IELTS speaking exam definately assess the candidates critical thinking, fluency and vocabulary range.
In a band 9 candidate you are essentially a native speaker, with level 5 being someone who can develop an arguement. Grammatical ability is still important but not weighted equally as, say critical thinking.
IELTS will evaluate the candidates ability to maintain a conversation with a native speaker |
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TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| Most of my students have attended different schools in Mexico City and have gone through and passed the various levels each school has organized its curriculum around. What they have not been able to learn is how to hold an ordinary conversation in English with a native speaker! |
Oh the irony! You just can't learn these things from a coursebook, even Interchange.
| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| ... It's stories like these that have given me, at least, a not very positive impression of the language school business in Mexico. |
I mean, what's the only thing you can sell without a guarantee, that's in abundant supply and that everyone wants to have? The English language of course! Ubiquitous language schools run by ex-pat salesmen/shysters, some of which even managed to learn a little Spanish (well, enough to get their own lunch). Talk about practicing what you preach. |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I mean, what's the only thing you can sell without a guarantee, that's in abundant supply and that everyone wants to have? |
Bon Ice.
Do you have them in the rest of the country???? I love 'em! |
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sweeney66
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: "home"
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:47 am Post subject: horses for courses |
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A course book I liked was the Pearson Open Series. I really did see at least a dozen students go from "not a dang word" to " yep, she speaks English" in 18 months, including some I thought were thick as two planks.
For supplement at higher levels, I used the New York Times, The Guardian and the BBC.
And I thought Headway et. al. really sucked.
Last edited by sweeney66 on Fri May 21, 2010 2:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Now, I'm sure of it! We have met before, sweeney. Are you back in Mexico? |
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sweeney66
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: "home"
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:40 am Post subject: hola |
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| pm'd you Isla. |
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