Job Discussion Forums

Omar_UK · Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 3

Hello everyone,

I'm a newbie and obviously got a lot of questions. I am male from London and I just finished my degree in Ba Accounting and finance. I just realised when I finished my course that Accounting was not something I wanted to get into. I am really interested in teaching English and I just have a few questions regarding the opportunities that are available with doing a Celta course.

I want to go Saudi for mainly 2 reasons. First being that I have family in Riyadh and secondly because I can save a lot of money... that's what I understood from some of the posts on here about the gulf states.

I only have 1 real question which is are there a lot of oppertunities in KSA on teaching English, as I intend to stay for long time rather than a few years.

Mia Xanthi · Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject:

Even if you do a CELTA, your qualifications will be minimal and you will only be qualified for some of the least desirable jobs. These jobs will not pay well and certainly will not allow you to save large sums of money. If you really want to make this career change, your best bet is to do a DELTA or look for a one-year MA program in TEFL.

Also, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but if you have an Arab name, even if you are a native speaker of English and a British passport holder, this will make it doubly difficult for you to find a good job. Most of the good employers will immediately put the CV of someone with an Arab name into the "No" pile without even giving it a glance. It's wrong, but that's the way the place works.

Wish I had better news for you. Good luck!

Zajko · Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:56 am Post subject:

I take some of your points, Mia, but I think that's a bit of an over-negative assessment. I worked in Saudi with a number of teachers from the UK and US with Arab names and/or ancestry, and while it's true that some employers in the region see this as some sort of disadvantage, there are plenty of others who don't (or who see potential benefits).

You'll obviously need a CELTA or similar before going any further, and yes, you're likely to start off in one of the lower-paid positions until you've developed a bit of teaching experience and maybe some contacts. However, I know a number of teachers who started out in Saudi as their first teaching job (with mixed results, the negatives mainly due to culture-shock) and 'lower-paid' in Saudi still allows you to earn and save a relatively decent sum.

boysfromtheblackstuff · Joined: 15 May 2010 Posts: 35

try iceel for the ksu pyp

no teaching experience, irrelevant degree, arab name, basic tefl cert. they'll snap you up!

otherwise, come out on family visit and bang on a few doors

zaazia · Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 15

I would like to tell you to ignore what Mia Xanthi has said about employers placing your CV into what she calls the 'no pile'. What he/she has told you is not true. I have an Arab name and am also a practising Muslim. I have had no problems being offered teaching positions in Saudi Arabia.

I have worked in the UAE and also been offered teaching positions in Saudi Arabia including universities. All this and I have an Arab name.

I would say that what maybe counts against you is your lack of experience. I advise you to do the Celta so that you learn how to teach English as a foreign language. Still apply for jobs in Saudi Arabia
- you never know what you may get! Be aware that it's unlikely that you'll get the best jobs in terms of pay and conditions but you might get something.

Try this site for jobs, as well as tefl.com, teachsaudi.com,teachmideast.com or just simply google saudi teaching jobs.

I wish you all the best and good luck.

johnslat · Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:57 am Post subject:

Well, in my experience, having an "Arab name," is often disadvantageous -
outrageously unfair, of course, but then so much in the Kingdom can be.

It would be interesting to hear from others with a fair amount of experience in Saudi about this.

Regards,
John

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

With your profile you are talking about jobs paying 6 thousand to 8 thousand a month. Riyals. You game for that ?

Mia Xanthi · Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject:

By "Arab name" I meant that there is the danger that a potential employer will assume from your name that you are a non-native speaker. The discrimination is against the non-native speaker, rather than the Arab-ness or Muslim-ness of the applicant.

Omar_UK · Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 3

I thought that you need to have some experience before you can do a MA or a Delta? My initial plan was that i could use the celta as a means to getting that experience i lack then maybe go on to do a MA or a delta.

Whats the average pay per month for someone starting new like me?

007 · Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:03 pm Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject:

Dear 007,

"My name is an Arab name, and when I was in the Magic Kingdom, they offered me a better contract than an Arab from other Arab countries, knowning that I am not a native speaker of UK or USA, neither my eyes are Blue/Green! (I speak here for engineering subjects).

And, unfortunately, that makes all your anecdotes pretty much irrelevant to a discussion of the specifics of hiring practices with respect to EL teachers.

Regards,
John

Zajko · Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:44 am Post subject:

Presuming, Omar, (from your OP) that you're a native English speaker with a degree but no teaching experience, I'd say you'd be realistically looking at 7000-10000 SAR pcm (2000-2500 USD) for a first-time teaching job in Saudi, with flights and accommodation provided as standard. You'd need the CELTA first, of course.

That's low for Saudi but with a few contacts there and a year or so's experience under your belt, you should be looking at considerably more than that in fairly short order.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Skin colour and ethnicity will determine how you are perceived in KSA. You will be seen as a "Rafik" and fairly low down the pecking order.

You will have a daily struggle to convince students and others that you can speak and teach English as well as someone whose skin hue is slightly fairer.

Can you handle that ? Your students will continually refer to you as "Al Hindi". Can you handle that ? Forget any ideas of "Muslim brothers" giving you an easy time.

With ZERO teaching experience and no teaching credentials you MAY get one of the jobs at the bottom of the ladder. Getting a CELTA and at least two years experience in an easier but less well-paid environment might be better.

This is probably not what you want to hear. "Ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make ye free."

Zajko · Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:09 am Post subject:

This is presuming, Scot, that the OP is of 'Asian' rather than 'Arab' ancestry. If the former is the case, there is an element of truth in what you say: this kind of racism is unfortunately still alive and well in Saudi Arabia. Prospects are generally a little more pleasant if the latter is the case, however. Shame that this matters, but the truth is, it does.

Omar_UK · Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 3

well I know about the whole pecking order in saudi, as i was told by my family there. I haven't personally experienced problems from my travels to the gulf etc. I'm of arab origin by the way. But as far as teaching is concerned then it maybe a whole different game.

I also would like to know about the how the progression is like as teacher in english? If I was to get a 2 or 3 years experience and then go on to do a MA or DELTA how would things change, other than salary?

Also, which is better the MA or the DELTA?

Thanks for your help guys