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[mejms]

I came across this old post on a thread about how to teach "Was/Were vs. Did" in a different forum on Dave's (called Adult Education).

Was/were is used in constructions that contain adjectives or other types of complements (BE is known as 'the copula'), or participles (-ing form, and past participle); in those constructions with participles, although the was/were is technically still a "tensed" (or finite) verb, the (was/were+) -ing participle construction amounts to what is known as PROGRESSIVE or CONTINUOUS ASPECT, whilst the (was/were+) past participle will add VOICE (that is, form a PASSIVE construction). It is VITAL that you understand the (functional!) difference between truly 'Simple Past' constructions (which, beyond simple, positive statments will require the auxiliary DO to e.g. form questions, short answers, negatives or increase emphasis in the positive statement), and constructions that involve progressive aspect and/or (combinations are possible!) passive voice.

Did anyone get through that? I stopped after the first two lines because it's too convoluted and technical to be of any practical use. In fact, no post in this thread was really clear enough. I really detest grammar explanations . I've seen too many students lost or, even if they somehow get the main idea, unable to apply it.

The difference between was/were and did? Did is for an action (eat, drink, talk, practically any verb except for nacer-- to be born). Was/were are for all non-action verbs. Give your students examples (both grammar fill-in-the-blanks and translations) and keep reinforcing for them to ask themselves each time, is this an action or not an action. Pretty soon they'll get it and the idea will completely sink in.

But what about was talking? Well, my classes are systematically planned. I don't teach the past continuous until they've really got the past simple in all its aspects-- questions, negatives, etc. And if someone asks you, hey teacher, what about was talking you tell them that was talking is just like, estaba hablando. Students will nod. Then you leave past continuous practice until a later day.

I implore all teachers out there to avoid grammar explanations. And I invite all teachers out there to share their stories and methods for teaching grammar.

[Phil_K]

If only the average student actually understood the grammar of his/her native language, which I think is a prerequisite to learning another, we could bury most of this grammar stuff (and I say MOST), as the student would learn from instant recognition. I mean:

haber + p.p = have/has + p.p

or

estar + -iendo/-ando = be + -ing

It isn't exactly rocket science, is it?

Maybe that's why the Michel Thomas Method works so well.

[Dragonlady]

deleted

[gregd75]

Avoid grammatical explanations yes- for sure.

Model, model again and model some more... definately.

Students get the idea and the concept by seeing examples.

By the way, if you plan your classes soooo well- how have you gotten 'off piste' with a student saying 'teacher what about was talking?' I don't get that... Its a contradiction

When I used to plan my classes to the last minute, students couldn't really stray from what i was teaching them. If they did. I would say good question! I'd write it on the board and say... next class- explanation! and continue with my plan.

Still no need for L1. Unless you're feeling like the heat is getting to you and making you lazy!

[mejms]

[sweeney66]

I benefitted from a "L2 only" approach whilst learning Spanish. In a multi-ligual class. I used L1, sometimes , and was happy to be able to do so whilst teaching.

[gregd75]

Hey! Im not getting defensive. I apologise if it comes across that way. I don't want you to think I have an attitude either.

I want to say here, in this thread that I find it strange that if a teacher plans their classes- and I read between the lines that you plan your classes very well- then there should be very few times that a student throws a curve ball at you.

If, there is a curve ball, I offer my best practice in how to deal with it.

As for L1, I believe my position is clear. And being honest, I know that I use Spanish in my classes. I also know how guilty I feel once I have done it because I know hat I haven't done as well as I should have done in that class. On that day.

My post also pointss out how I would teach grammar - through modeling. I agree that teaching grammar should be avoided. I am answering the topic of the thread, or so I thought.

I apologise if this has been misunderstood.

[sweeney66]

No, no, Greg, get a grip. Give the kids a bit of love. When you use a tiny bit of L1 to your ability, you shine a light on the path to learning. You demonstrate 'I am a learner, too' Just like you, mate. We're in this together
And IMHO, that facilitates learning.

[gregd75]

hehehe!

Like I said, I use L1 in the class, don't worry!

I just remind myself that as children we didn't learn our mother tongue by being spoken to in another language. We learned it by modeling, listening, making mistakes and listening to our parents encourage us and provide us with a lot of support and love.

This is the way of a good teacher, I believe.

[mejms]

[gregd75]

my point concerning the curveball was that if a teacher is teaching the simple past- trying to highlight the uses of was/were & did, then was talking wouldn't come up. In my 5 years of teaching, it has never come up. I'd the grammatical structures

did + subject + verb (base form) + complement
subject + verb (base form) + complement
subject + was/were + complement

Therefore 'was talking' as you gave as an example wouldn't really come into plan in my 'equally' carefully planned lessons . If it did, then I'd park the though as previously mentioned.

I wouldn't be teaching was/were/did in the same class in an attempt to aviod confusion. You are right. This idea is confusing enough for students to understand- come on! Don't add to their confusion by trying to explain the intracacies. All the student needs t know is that this is the way it is. End of story..... I still don't understand why some SPanish verbs are reflexive, and after spending a lot of time trying to figure it out, my Spoanish teacher told me... why cares why? It's just the way it is and it's the way you must speak. I understoiod that point very clearly.

I describe your example od was talking as a curveball. It shouldnt really come up in class. I believe that my use of the idiom was correct, but I appreciate your attention to detail on this point.

As for your criticism concening my comment about kids and learning. I accept your points as valid, however I wonder why so many students choose to take a gap year, or a summer course or even a short course abroad and immerse themselves in English. The same idea as when kids learn their mother tongue. Complete immersion in the language is a well proven method to develop language skills.

Immersion students don't analyse structures when they are in the host family dining room. They learn to communicate. Theres the similarity, OK?

[mejms]

We're not going to see eye to eye on this was/were vs did grammar point. I could comment on some your comments, but let's just leave it at that.

[gregd75]