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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Hello? These guys are at work when you come in at 2am. Isn't "remaining awake" in the job description for these guys??? |
Their job description may not indicate a ever present vigil...but if the question is important to anyone not willing to wake them, then question their immediate supervisor. My first post, the old guy who locked the gate would fall sound asleep so I hired a crew of construction workers to build a lean-to ladder of sorts...went over the wall...they issued me a key the next week... |
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rc81
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
| rc81 wrote: |
| I learned recently that I can't have guests in my "apartment" and I need to be home by 11pm every night, even on weekends or I can't get back into the building. |
its things like this that make it easy to understand why Chinese people fear everything and are afraid to do anything on their own. This is the same kind of thing that's been imposed on them from the day they were born, and they try to project these same limitations onto foreigners. thanks but no thanks.
Here's some advice for FTs in China. If you're ever presented with a contract that states you have to be on the school grounds before 11pm or some other ridiculously early hour, and you can't have any visitors in your flat overnight, then negotiate that out of your contract. it can be easily done if you explain why you don't like it. if the school still won't change them then tell them to take a hike. or sign.
Yeah, the apartments belong to the school and they make the rules, but there needs to be some compromise - some freedom to relax here without worrying about being spied on and punished for doing something that everyone else in the world is doing - staying out late and having guests at home. I've even seen some people post on this forum that they felt bad about waking the guards up when they knock on the gate in the early hours to get in. Hello? These guys are at work when you come in at 2am. Isn't "remaining awake" in the job description for these guys???
Speaking for myself, i don't need to be babysat  |
there was actually nothing about the 11 o'clock rule in the contract. but their argument was that i needed to obey the rules of the university and this was one of them. i did threaten to quit when this happened and they called my bluff. im still surprised by this because they wouldnt have had a teacher for a larger than normal class load and most of the students seem to like me. i don't actually want to break the contract even though there aren't many positives to staying here. |
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living&learning
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| This wouldn't be an issue with me. I'd come and go as I pleased, since I'm not the property of the school. Pretty simple really. |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| living&learning wrote: |
| This wouldn't be an issue with me. I'd come and go as I pleased, since I'm not the property of the school. Pretty simple really. |
Except:
It ain't that simple!
In China, as an employee of any organisation, you are considered to be "their property" in their eyes. If you go against this line of thought and do as you please, you will be considered to be a troublemaker. Once you develop poor rapport with the school, you are on the downward slide and a number of problems are likely to confront you thereafter. This is not the west as stated many times.
It is better to look for some form of compromise in which the school will reform this rule without looking as though they have had to bow down to the request of the foreigner. |
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mnguy29
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 155
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| How can anyone say "stay in your room or be in your room by 11"?? Gotta go out and have a little fun while in China too. We are adults! Sit in your room and be bored? No. Should be able to have guests too. I have now learned to ask the question about access after hours and having guests in my room when looking at a job. I would never accept this. |
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living&learning
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| It ain't that simple! |
Um, no, it is that simple. I've come and gone at a couple of campuses as I pleased. I woke up guards if I needed to, I had visitors whenever I wanted to. Never a word was said to me. Sometimes the guard was a bit surly, but that aint my problem.
It aint the west, but it's far from prison. I live my life the way I want to. If it wasn't working for me, I'd have left a while ago.
So, yes, it is that simple. And no, I'm not the property of the school in their eyes, and they know that full well. |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| living&learning wrote: |
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| It ain't that simple! |
Um, no, it is that simple. I've come and gone at a couple of campuses as I pleased. I woke up guards if I needed to, I had visitors whenever I wanted to. Never a word was said to me. Sometimes the guard was a bit surly, but that aint my problem.
It aint the west, but it's far from prison. I live my life the way I want to. If it wasn't working for me, I'd have left a while ago.
So, yes, it is that simple. And no, I'm not the property of the school in their eyes, and they know that full well. |
So I assume that your advice to the OP would be ignore this rule that is being imposed on you and do things your way because the school is being unreasonable?
Fine, the OP is free to try this method but I wouldn't put money on a trouble free existence in China. You may, and I stress may, get away with ignoring rules for a short time in western society. In China, well these boards are filled with stories related to teachers who broke what appeared to be inconsequential rules then paid the price.
My advice would be find a compromise solution. That solution may be to negotiate your way out of the contract or get some kind of concession agreed.
"And no, I'm not the property of the school in their eyes, and they know that full well".
Nice sentiment but, in China, I can guarantee that your employer, be it in teaching or ortherwise, does believe that they have an iron grip on you and that you should be nothing more than a subservient running dog. There may be the odd exception to the rule, but I have not come across many.
It is nothing to do with you or the school that you are at. It is everything to do with this authoritarian, Confucian society. Chinese people are born to do as they are told and to follow rules blindly. As a foreigner working in China, you will be expected to follow this mindset. It is difficult for us westerners to accept but survival in China means pulling the line or looking for acceptable compromise.
It is also why simple things always seem so difficult in China. It is because everyone here sticks absolutely rigidly to the rule or procedure even when they know it is unreasonable. The Chinese do know how to get around rules or overlook them but that does not include overt disobedience. There are other ways. |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Fine, the OP is free to try this method but I wouldn't put money on a trouble free existence in China. You may, and I stress may, get away with ignoring rules for a short time in western society. In China, well these boards are filled with stories related to teachers who broke what appeared to be inconsequential rules then paid the price. |
I have found quite the opposite to be true (in fact I found the whole post to be direct conflict to the experience I have had in China) ....at any rate live by the motto; It is far easier to get forgiveness than to receive permission. |
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living&learning
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| It is difficult for us westerners to accept but survival in China means pulling the line or looking for acceptable compromise. |
The compromise I found that works for me best is NOT living on campus. Besides I'm not the 20-something year old I was when I arrived in China, different priorities now. |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| living&learning wrote: |
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| It is difficult for us westerners to accept but survival in China means pulling the line or looking for acceptable compromise. |
The compromise I found that works for me best is NOT living on campus. Besides I'm not the 20-something year old I was when I arrived in China, different priorities now. |
Me too - but I have also found it a useful tactic to just play the nodding donkey when faced with often ridiculous or trivial rules. Finding a way around them that causes least stress is one way that I describe compromise.
The OP has had a rule forced upon him/her. Blindly ignoring the rule as I do what I want is probably not the answer. |
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living&learning
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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With you on the nodding donkey trick - very useful in China. Perhaps I do what I do in China, without feeling pressure from above because of this.
They say "do it this way", I say "sure, I'll do it this way", I walk out the door and do it my way, without them noticing or caring or thinking it's worth causing a stink, cuz in their minds they did tell me 'the way'..
Perhaps we have a common mindset, just a different view on how we get it done..  |
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