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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 524
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 Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
Sadebugo posted
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| However, being an EFLer does not afford this opportunity because we live in an artificial bubble and don't really see what the locals must endure on a daily basis. To truly understand, we would need to live like the indigenous population. |
You mean I should be living like the Ainu in Japan?
As to living like the locals; let's see...
have a mortgage
pay taxes
help wife's elderly parents
don't beat my students often(only with a softcover textbook, not a dumbell)
and try not to let a megametropolis like Tokyo wear me down.
And I say excuse me on the trains when departing, except many of the 'enlightened' locals don't usually do that.
So, I'm wondering, what am I missing  ? |
You may experience some of the negatives that the locals do, but can you truly say you live the life of a Japanese man? Are you working to the point of 'Karoshi?' Do you REALLY have all the obligations imposed upon the average Japanese person? Finally, could you not escape all of it if you wanted to? I honestly doubt that any English teacher becomes fully integrated into the fabric of society as long as s/he has the option of leaving.
So, we live in our expat bubbles overseas that provide us with the luxury of criticizing our home countries. I believe we would be much more forgiving if we knew we could never return to them.
Oh, and for the record, I really enjoyed living in Japan but don't think I would choose it (forever) over my own country.
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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It's really hard to generalize- There are a LOT of countries out there. Certainly the world is more complicated than the "US/everywhere else" dicotomy.
The idea that:
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| If more people could live in other countries and see the injustices that the local population must endure, they would be more appreciative of their lives in America. |
Is one that has a lot of value. Seeing people who don't have what we do should make us appreciative of our advantages, and strengthen our resolve to help make the world a better place, wherever we're from and wherever we are.
While I've been overseas, though, I've also seen universal accesibility of higher education, without prohibitive debt! THis is something I'd like to take to the US if I could.
Heck, I've seen universal health care work! I'd send that one home in a heartbeat.
It's a massive oversimplication to pretend that blessings are all in America and injustices all overseas. WHile I'm reminded to appreciate where I'm from, I'll also appreciate the unique benefits of where I am.
And:
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| However, being an EFLer does not afford this opportunity because we live in an artificial bubble and don't really see what the locals must endure on a daily basis. |
Simply doesn't describe the life I lived in Ecuador. The locals were my neighbors, my friends, my coworkers...
DOes this mean I lived "exactly like an Ecuadorian?" Of course not. BUt not in an expat bubble either.
I'm seeing a lot more expat bubble now in Korea, to tell you the truth. Not yet knowing the language is probably a factor, though there are others.
But I never expected two countries to be the same. Nobody really would. Which is why it confuses me, Sadebugo, that you can make such sweeping generalizations about "being an EFLer" and what it's like in every country, for everybody.
I know that you've had plenty of experiences that are very different than mine. Why is it so hard for you to accept that I've had some that are very different than yours?
And saying that we can't fully integrate because we're always free to leave is silly. I was fully integrated into US life for a number of years, though I was always free to leave. (And I proved it.  )
BEst,
Justin |
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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
It's really hard to generalize- There are a LOT of countries out there. Certainly the world is more complicated than the "US/everywhere else" dicotomy.
The idea that:
| Quote: |
| If more people could live in other countries and see the injustices that the local population must endure, they would be more appreciative of their lives in America. |
Is one that has a lot of value. Seeing people who don't have what we do should make us appreciative of our advantages, and strengthen our resolve to help make the world a better place, wherever we're from and wherever we are.
While I've been overseas, though, I've also seen universal accesibility of higher education, without prohibitive debt! THis is something I'd like to take to the US if I could.
Heck, I've seen universal health care work! I'd send that one home in a heartbeat.
It's a massive oversimplication to pretend that blessings are all in America and injustices all overseas. WHile I'm reminded to appreciate where I'm from, I'll also appreciate the unique benefits of where I am.
And:
| Quote: |
| However, being an EFLer does not afford this opportunity because we live in an artificial bubble and don't really see what the locals must endure on a daily basis. |
Simply doesn't describe the life I lived in Ecuador. The locals were my neighbors, my friends, my coworkers...
DOes this mean I lived "exactly like an Ecuadorian?" Of course not. BUt not in an expat bubble either.
I'm seeing a lot more expat bubble now in Korea, to tell you the truth. Not yet knowing the language is probably a factor, though there are others.
But I never expected two countries to be the same. Nobody really would. Which is why it confuses me, Sadebugo, that you can make such sweeping generalizations about "being an EFLer" and what it's like in every country, for everybody.
I know that you've had plenty of experiences that are very different than mine. Why is it so hard for you to accept that I've had some that are very different than yours?
And saying that we can't fully integrate because we're always free to leave is silly. I was fully integrated into US life for a number of years, though I was always free to leave. (And I proved it. )
BEst,
Justin |
Hi, Justin:
You made a lot of good points. It's absolutely true that not all the good is in the US/West and not all the bad is outside of that area (I never made this statement in my post). If you look at my OP, I was responding to a generalization myself. The poster I responded to wrote a comment asking if all Americans traveled, would not America fundamentally change. Here is the exact quote:
"It is hard to get used to again isn't it? Do you think if more Americans spent a while abroad that the whole country would be fundamentally changed?"
Maybe I'm being sensitive, but I interpreted this comment to mean that America NEEDED fundamental change as it was written in response to someone saying they couldn't endure living in the US again. I cringe when people compare the US with some unrealistic utopia that will never exist versus your average country in the world. Yes, America is not perfect and could improve but I think it compares very favorably to any other country. There's also a lot of jealousy of the US on this board and this sometimes makes me question the motives of individual posters.
And, for the record, I plan on retiring to the Republic of Georgia in approximately ten years. Although I love it there, I would never presume to think it was better than my home country.
Thanks for the comments,
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Sadebugo posted
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| You may experience some of the negatives that the locals do, but can you truly say you live the life of a Japanese man? Are you working to the point of 'Karoshi?' |
Not yet, I am not a ghost (really, even though Chinese people referred to me as one ).
Sadebugo posted
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| Do you REALLY have all the obligations imposed upon the average Japanese person? |
Do I need to have all of them to experience local life here?
Sadebugo posted
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| Finally, could you not escape all of it if you wanted to? |
And as Justin hinted at, couldn't a local escape also (my wife did for 10 years)?
Sadebugo posted
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| I honestly doubt that any English teacher becomes fully integrated into the fabric of society as long as s/he has the option of leaving. |
But as I said, everyone or most people in Japan
have that option, but not all choose to leave.
Sadebugo posted
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| So, we live in our expat bubbles overseas that provide us with the luxury of criticizing our home countries. I believe we would be much more forgiving if we knew we could never return to them. |
You have a point, but who said you would never be able to come back? Do we need to compare ourselves to real refugees?
Sadebugo posted
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| Oh, and for the record, I really enjoyed living in Japan but don't think I would choose it (forever) over my own country. |
And I have enjoyed living in Japan up to now, but I also probably won't plan to retire here.
As to forever, that is a 'long' time for any place.
Over and out,
GA |
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Otterman Ollie
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 1067
Location: South Western Turkey
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Been living abroad since the early 90's all in Turkey. Still have a lot of affection for the place, despite present employers best efforts to change that. Could only go back to the U.K to throw myself on the mercy of the welfare state and claim refugee status as been an outlawed Kurd looking for free housing and 400 sterling a week to live on. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I have done eight international moves.
I have spent just a hair short of ten years abroad. In fact, I was born abroad (in the Netherlands) to parents who were also "in the lifestyle." And my mom was born (in Berlin) to parents who were "in the lifestyle." And my grandfather was born in America to Germans fleeing Canadian authorities during WWI who were trying to round them up and put them in internment camps. My family, going back at least one century, can't even seem to put its roots down for a single generation.
I am sick of international moves. I want to settle in one place. Not necessarily America.
I want to be able to own possessions that are too large to put in a suitcase (things that top my list: an Apple ][ computer for nostalgia's sake, land, a pet, etc.).
I want to make lasting friendships instead of "oh, great, we're friends, gotta go!"
I want to work my way up within a society, starting with learning the language, but not stopping there.
Moving around may create an interesting person with a lot of stories, but something can also be said for settling in one place and mastering every nuance of that society over the course of a decade, two decades, etc. |
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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
I have done eight international moves.
I have spent just a hair short of ten years abroad. In fact, I was born abroad (in the Netherlands) to parents who were also "in the lifestyle." And my mom was born (in Berlin) to parents who were "in the lifestyle." And my grandfather was born in America to Germans fleeing Canadian authorities during WWI who were trying to round them up and put them in internment camps. My family, going back at least one century, can't even seem to put its roots down for a single generation.
I am sick of international moves. I want to settle in one place. Not necessarily America.
I want to be able to own possessions that are too large to put in a suitcase (things that top my list: an Apple ][ computer for nostalgia's sake, land, a pet, etc.).
I want to make lasting friendships instead of "oh, great, we're friends, gotta go!"
I want to work my way up within a society, starting with learning the language, but not stopping there.
Moving around may create an interesting person with a lot of stories, but something can also be said for settling in one place and mastering every nuance of that society over the course of a decade, two decades, etc. |
I know what you mean about wanting a sense of permanence. I did the EFL circuit for ten years and only owned what was in my suitcase. When I acquired my current job, I was a little concerned about being tied down to one place forever. However, fortunately for me, I am still able to spend a lot of time overseas as a result of this job and, now have a house where I display/store all my possessions. It's really the best of both worlds. I'm even thinking about returning to Djibouti for a six-month stint this fall!
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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FoundWaldo
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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I have lived abroad four times: 6 years in Australia, 2 years in Taiwan, 6 months in New Zealand, and a quick 4 months in Italy.
Now I am back in the Bay Area, but we'll see how long that lasts.. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| FoundWaldo wrote: |
| Now I am back in the Bay Area... |
Botany Bay? 
NCTBA |
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FoundWaldo
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Haha, no I wish.. The Bay Area of San Francisco, Berkeley to be exact. |
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