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Communist Smurf · Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 330 Location: San Francisco

Ok, *perhaps* I was mistaken. It might just be my perception. Having studied two different dialects lead me to believe it's impossible for people from Egypt to understand people from Iraq, because believe me, they are almost completely different, particularly with the use of verbs.

I'm leaving Egypt and going to Russia soon. It'll be refreshing to know that I can study Russian and actually be able to go to on the street and *speak Russian* with people I see. I'm a little burnt out on the Middle East.

eslandflteacher · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 41

Greetings,

I am quite "late" in coming to this thread. However, on reading it, I felt I had to put in my two cents worth. I am a teacher of Arabic as a Foreign Language and English as a Foreign Language, and from this professional perspective I would like to share my amazement at some of the characterizations used by some contributors to this thread.

For one thing, the total mis-representation of how and what Arabic is (I am referring to calling it "absurd" or stating wrong things (e.g. speakers of one dialect do not understand another), or failing to understand that, yes, English also has its own dialects, too. All of this is amazing were it coming from "civilians", but teachers--well, that is a catasrophe in my humble and irrelevant view.

Nonetheless, the attitude of some of those "teachers" (yes, in quotes for a reason) is nothing less than Orientalist.

I find it incredible that teachers suggest Arabic to be a "hard language" for English native speakers, while they are in the business of teaching Arabic native speakers--to whom English, by the same token, is equally hard. Yet, they (students) seem to be doing it as evidenced by the presence of those EFL teachers!

Also, I find myself beside myself at the notion that language teachers--yes, language--do not seem willing to invest in learning the language of their students in order to understand the linguistic background (biases, if you will, of the linguistic system) in order to get a better handle on how to give instruction in the target language. In addition, one ought not forget that learning a foreign language equidistant from one's own as one's students can only imbue the teaching and learning process with a lot of empathy and understanding.

The notion that Arabic is hard is ridiculous.

Would anyone accept or give a lot of credence to an Arabic native speaker's claim that English is too hard to learn? Evidently not. Because the proof is in the proverbial English pudding since all those EFL teachers are in the Gulf teaching and since English, for all practical purposes, is a second language in the region as elsewhere.

The only reason Arabic is "hard" or "absurd" or whatever other crap some might come up with is due in large measure to a very prejudiced point of view.

Kenneth

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Well said

I am still amazed at the number of people who teach English as a Foreign languge without EVER having learnt a foreign language themselves !

This is particularly common in the Middle East. I am not talking about learning Arabic - just having spens some time on High School French or Spanish.

In Saudi Arabia only a small minority of EFL teachers have achieved any level of competence in Arabic. I have colleagues who have been here for more than 20 years without acquiring even the basics. Shameful !

Cleopatra · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:28 am Post subject:

As you know, scot, I totally agree with you.

When I told people in KSA that I was trying to learn Arabic many of them looked at me like I was a nutter. I think it's particularly silly for EFL teachers to act as though their students' first language simply doesn't exist. I know people who have been here for a decade and more and still don't feel the need to learn a single phrase in Arabic.

And, again as scot says, it's not only KSA. I know teachers living in countries where the language and the society were much more accessible than in KSA, and they still couldn't be bothered.

The arrogance/narrow-mindedness of Anglophones...

Eijse · Joined: 17 Dec 2003 Posts: 119 Location: Yemen (Aden)

Bindair Dundat · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 1123

Cleopatra · Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject:

One of the most frustrating things I found about ARabic was the difficulty in fiding a good bilingual dictionary - i still haven't succeeded in this.

Also, while I agree that the alphabet is not as daunting as first appears, the lack of written vowels can be a big problem in succesful reading - so many time I think I have correctly deciphered a word (and I have, in the sense that I did read all the letters right) but the "word" I come up with sounds completely different to what it should - because I don't know what - if any - vowels go between the consonants.

Also, I have to say that, while I strongly believe that all eFL teachers should at least make an attempt to learn it, Arabic IS a very difficult language for English speakers. Not only the alphabet, but the complex grammar, the fact that few words sound anything like those in European languages (making memorizing them very hard) and, perhaps most importatnly of all, the fact that there are so many consonant sounds in ARabic which have no equivalents in English at all.

I have dabbled in loads of languages in my years as a teacher, and I have to say that Arabic is definately the most, shall we say, challenging. No contest.

Eijse · Joined: 17 Dec 2003 Posts: 119 Location: Yemen (Aden)

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

For reading practice I suggest texts written for children. These are often fully-vowelled, unlike texts printed for adult readers.

The "Ladybird" books had a nice series published for kids learning to read.

thrwis y r strglng wth txtx tht lk smthng lk this

Boy Wonder · Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 453 Location: Clacton on sea

only the language of LUUUUUURRRRRRVVVEEEEEE!!!!!!

eslandflteacher · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 41

eslandflteacher · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 41

Of course, "al-Kitab" is authored by Kirsten "Brustad" not "Busted", Abbas al-Tonsi, and Mahmoud al-Batal. The book is available via Walmart for around USD 37.

Elementary Modern Standard Arabic is sold at USD 37: Here is a Walmart description of the text:

"The Elementary Modern Standard Arabic Course (EMSA) is the premier introduction, for the English-speaking student, to the active written language of the contemporary Arab world. Expressly designed for the beginning student, the course is written by a team of Arabic language teachers consisting of native and non-native Arabic speakers, linguists and people whose primary interests are literature and allied areas. It implements an audio-lingual approach to language teaching while presenting the elements of Modern Standard Arabic as written and spoken in the contemporary Arab World. Volume 1 is complete in itself and presents a practical introduction to the writing system of Arabic and to its pronunciation, with reading and writing pronunciation drills. Thirty lessons provide a basic working knowledge of Arabic. Each lesson contains a text, a vocabulary, grammar and drills including oral and written comprehension passages. An Arabic-English glossary completes the volume. The course continues in Volume 2, which extends the knowledge of vocabulary, grammar and expression. Fifteen further lessons are followed by appendices which give reference information. "

abufletcher · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:56 am Post subject:

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Sheikh Inal Ovar · Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 1208 Location: Melo Drama School

Donkeys years ago one of the above posters stood amazed at how some teachers thought learning Arabic was difficult while they expected their students to carry on in English as though the reverse were not true ...

To my knowledge, nobody drew attention to the fact that many of the students being taught English have had god knows how much exposure to the language before Uni-prep teachers, for example, get their hands on them ... many of the the language teachers in the Gulf attempting to learn Arabic, however, have had zero ... squat ... not forgetting that many of the students experienced that exposure and instruction when children while the language teachers approach the learning experience when adults ... (or of adult age anyhow !)

Not to mention the quite probable absence of many of the factors that Spolsky, for one, listed as essential for motivating learners of a language to do actually that ... this combined with a real lack of meaningful situations in which to use or practice the language ... especially in the Gulf .. (though I daresay Oman veterans would have more postive reports) ... doesn't make the task of learning the language as 'easy' as lets say the task of a francophile English student of French who has newly arrived in his city of dreams, and all things French, Paris.

The point being that the earlier poster having climbed up on his high horse to condemn the lack of professionalism of colleagues, and by so doing wave the flag of his own claim to professionalism, neglected many points crucial to assessing the difficulty of the task of learning a language for the individual learner ...

... and as such the poster is rather hoisted with his own petard ...