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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: 21 year-old American male challenges? |
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| KME0050 wrote: |
I agree with those of you who said that my Saudi friend probably sees what he wants to see in his own culture and would likely downplay any negatives. |
I know a few who do more than downplay negatives. They are simply very insecure and will tell you this country is paradise on earth (even those who have lived abroad...perhaps especially those, because they get defensive), that we westerners are so privileged to have the opportunity to go sit around in the scrubby desert and look at camels all day on our weekends. Or that Saudi houses are the most beautiful and perfect in the world. That food is the best in the world. That total gender segregation is the only way to have a society. And...'nuff said?
Last edited by Sheikh N Bake on Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KME0050
Joined: 02 Jun 2010
Posts: 87
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: 21 year-old American male challenges? |
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| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
| KME0050 wrote: |
Very discouraging . . . I had hoped that this opportunity for me could also be a really terrific opportunity for him as well. ated. |
Oh my goodness...KSA a "terrific opportunity"? It's a salary opportunity even for old hands, that's all. For young blond pretty boys who don't handle boredom well?? An opportunity for me to ask you...what were you thinking?? Sorry to be so blunt. It's just tough love!  |
Just a salary opportunlity? I sure hope not! That is not why I am going. I have never traveled anywhere that I have not enjoyed on some level and so really can't imagine this won't be a good experience. I am not expecting a vacation, just something new and interesting. I understand now why this wouldn't be a good place for my son, but have got to believe there is something in it for me beyond money. |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| You can't believe that this won't be a good experience? It might be. I'd hazard a guess that about 10% of the western expats do like the country. If you turn out to be one, more power to you. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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In my humble opinion, how one adapts has more to do with wisdom, maturity and one's ability to navigate-deal with the Saudi social, cultural & religious contradictions and complexities which can become problematic, if you are socially - culturally insensitive and /or unaware etc. etc..
The OP should be fine and will manage, but would be worried for her son. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: 21 year-old American male challenges? |
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| KME0050 wrote: |
| I agree with those of you who said that my Saudi friend probably sees what he wants to see in his own culture and would likely downplay any negatives. Our two families were close many years ago when the two of us were in graduate school together in the U.S. and we were really looking forward to reuniting our kids. But our kids were little back then and were friends here. |
Well, the question is: Is your Saudi friend has a big Wasta or occupy a high administrative position so that in any problem with the administration he can help? Because the bureaucratic system in the Magic Kingdom is very complicated, and you need somebody who has strong connections withing the system to help you in that environment!
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| At least my son is old enough to stay behind and live on his own. If he were 16 or 17, I imagine he might have some of the same problems, but leaving him behind wouldn't be an option. |
So, who will be your mahram then?
| Sheikh Nano wrote: |
| I'd hazard a guess that about 10% of the western expats do like the country. |
Definitely Uncle Scott is included in the 10%!  |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The only place I have ever visited where I felt distinctly uncomfortable is London - the centre of the Evil Empire ! |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I felt distinctly uncomfortable in the outdoor market in Malabo, Equatorial Guinea. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Saint Johns, New Brunswick- felt like I was in a Stephen King novel ... bad vibes.....creeeepy!
Last edited by cmp45 on Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KME0050
Joined: 02 Jun 2010
Posts: 87
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: 21 year-old American male challenges? |
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| 007 wrote: |
| Well, the question is: Is your Saudi friend has a big Wasta or occupy a high administrative position so that in any problem with the administration he can help? Because the bureaucratic system in the Magic Kingdom is very complicated, and you need somebody who has strong connections withing the system to help you in that environment! |
I think it is fair to say that my friend has some clout and can pull strings if necessary. In fact, he already has. Also, no one there said a mahram was necessary, just desirable. So it's ok if my son doesn't come with me. |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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You should be able to sponsor him for a visitor's visa so that he can come and have the KSA "experience" without committing to living there. I agree with everyone here that it is a very bad idea for him to come along to live with you.
Strangely enough, it would be safer for you to bring a daughter of that age than a son. The daughter would have to be covered up and constantly accompanied, and therefore less exposed to danger. Your attractive blonde son will be free to move about as he likes and he will not be covered, therefore attracting a great deal of unwanted attention.
I would have two worries about this. One is that he could be kidnapped by a group of young Saudi men, taken to the desert, and raped. This happens a lot, and your son wouldn't have a leg to stand on legally. Crimes of that nature are always the fault of the foreigner, never the fault of the Saudi. The other problem is that, being so close to the Yemeni border, your son will attract attention as an American. It is possible that he could be kidnapped and held hostage for that reason....or just kidnapped and shot for that reason.
Abha is a very rural and uneducated part of Saudi Arabia, a sort of KSA "redneck" crowd, if you wish. Their political feelings are not well thought-out, and just being visibly American could lead to a violent situation for him. I knew an Australian man in Abu Dhabi (young, handsome, blonde - like your son) who was dragged out of his car at rush hour in downtown Abu Dhabi and beaten senseless by a Bedouin-type guy who, for some reason, was thoroughly convinced that my blonde Aussie friend was a Jew. True story....I saw him all black and blue from the beating the next day.
Let your son visit for a short while, but don't bring him with you. |
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KME0050
Joined: 02 Jun 2010
Posts: 87
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: 21 year-old American male challenges? |
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| And a visit it just might be. I have 3 months to work out the details. Right now I don't know. I read some of the posts here to him and, suffice it to say, he lost a bit of his enthusiasm for the trip. However if he were to come with me with the understanding he could leave if it didn't work out for him, or he didn't feel comfortable, I guess that would be ok. What a lot to worry about . . . |
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Gerund
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 80
Location: Amerika
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:23 am Post subject: Re: 21 year-old American male challenges? |
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| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
Oh my goodness...KSA a "terrific opportunity"? It's a salary opportunity even for old hands, that's all. For young blond pretty boys who don't handle boredom well?? An opportunity for me to ask you...what were you thinking?? Sorry to be so blunt. It's just tough love! |
To be fair, Saudi Arabia is not an entirely horrible place. It's exotic and interesting in many ways, and the people are generally very friendly, in a useless sort of way. It's just that for many of us KSA veterans, the negatives soon outweigh the positives. One bucket fills up a lot faster than the other. Unless you are a Muslim convert or "on the other team", there i$ really only one rea$on to work in $audi Arabia.
| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
I felt distinctly uncomfortable in the outdoor market in Malabo, Equatorial Guinea. |
Who are you, mystery man? I worked in Malabo too. I'm sure I know you. I will now read your other 937 posts to try to solve this mystery.
cmp45's advice about not broaching this with your employer is good. It's not likely anything he'll want to admit to and may annoy him enough to cancel the job offer.
What Mia Xanthi says about being kidnapped and raped is accurate too. This does happen. I decided not to horrify you any further by mentioning it and also because when I wrote my initial reply, I expected I might be jumped on for being a culturally insensitive homophobe. I am certainly neither of these--just being realistic and speaking from experience--and I am pleased that my views are supported by others. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: |
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S&B
It is quite possible that those Saudis who speak like this really do think KSA is a great place. Most of us think our own patch of Terra is something special. You make it sound like they are dissembling or pretending when, of course, they know that really only Florida is perfect. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Mia Xanthi wrote: |
| Abha is a very rural and uneducated part of Saudi Arabia, a sort of KSA "redneck" crowd, if you wish. |
Teta Mia must be from the North of USA!
I think Uncle Sam, the "crackers" of Georgia and Florida, and the "hillbilly" of Appalachia (Simpson is from this tribe!) will be angry on you, Teta Mia!
Don't you know that the rednecks are hardworking people who spent long hours under the sun looking after their cows, camels, farms. It is Hollywood who destroyed the reputation of "rednecks" and "hillbilly".
The Devil Went Down to Georgia! |
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desert date
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 67
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: 21 year-old American male challenges? |
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| KME0050 wrote: |
Hello Again--
For those of you who have lived and worked in Saudi Arabia for some time, can anyone predict any particular challenges a 21 year-old American male might face there? He is smart, outgoing and friendly, a little shy with girls, athletic, and a tall, fair-skinned, blonde, blue-eyed pretty boy. . . problem? |
There's also the possibility that he will get a lot of attention from younger Saudi women and this obviously could lead to problems if he doesn't know how to deal with it. I haven't done a survey but I'd dare wager that young, attractive, non-damaged, not-yet-cynical western men are in short supply in Saudi. With his looks and outgoing personality he's going to stick out like a sore thumb.
I'm in my late twenties and have been to Saudi twice for the Umrah and to visit relatives. I'm not Caucasian but as a fair-haired Arab Australian with green eyes I got my fair share of attention and was propositioned by both men and women. The men will quickly back off when you politely but firmly tell them that you're not interested (too bad I don't swing that way or I could have been nicely set up in a plush apartment in Sydney by a wealthy sheikh  ). The women are another matter and can be terribly persistent especially if they get hold of your number or Internet contacts like Facebook and Twitter (so he might want to be extra careful with these). |
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