Job Discussion Forums

[choudoufu]

i contacted a recruiter (who shall for the time being remain nameless) about positions in a certain province. he replied with a possible vacancy for me, and included an 8-page word document. this was not a contract, but a pre-contract thingy, which provided much boilerplate info. i was to sign the last page, scan and email to him, and he would apply for the position. this was not a formal contract, but my "signing of the employment pack indicates [my] initial acceptance of the terms and conditions as outlined and [my] willingness to sign the formal contract."

i responded with a few questions, and received rather odd (i thought) responses.

i asked about changing some terms (of the contract not yet delivered),
in terms of hours or scheduling. his response: "Terms are not negotiable unless otherwise indicated."

i live in thailand, so have questions about the flight reimbursement. is it reimbursement or a fixed sum given to the teacher? do i need receipts?
his response: "You do not necessarily need receipts.... but you will get the same reimbursement as other teachers."

as to additional duties, i.e. english corner or office hours: "You are only required to be on campus for your scheduled classes. At other times you are free to do as you wish."

and as a test, i asked whether there is a train station in the school's city: "One may get from anywhere to anywhere by train in China. There would also be buses."

soooo, i'm being told:

1. there will be no negotiation unless the item specifically says negotiable. not likely in a pre-printed contract.

2. i'll "get the same" as other teachers in regards to flight reimbursement or payment, whatever that may be.

3. outside of the required 16 or 18 scheduled classes, i would have NO
duties whatsoever. (this is a public university). unbelievable.

4. he has no idea what transport options are available at the school's location. there is a 6-hour bus ride from the nearest city with an international airport.


i'm wondering if this gentleman is a legitimate recruiter. seems odd that he doesn't really know the details of the position. also, i found a posting for the same university on the website of another recruiting agency that i know to be legitimate.

should i run from this one?

[teachaus]

Is there any reason why you haven't just contacted the university directly yourself?

[Teatime of Soul]

Why use a recruiter when you can get answers directly from an employer?

I know one school with a TERRIBLE reputation. Teacher turnover is about 200% per year.

They would NEVER dare advertise on Dave's or any other public forum where they would be outed.

So they rely on recruiters and a creative patchwork of names to fool search engines and lure in the new fish.

I guess that's one of the main reasons I'm a little leery of recruiters - they can serve as camouflage for bad employers.

But others may have a different story to tell.

Cheers.

[choudoufu]

[NATO]

[raven15]

1. there will be no negotiation unless the item specifically says negotiable. not likely in a pre-printed contract.
Really most of it is probably negotiable in practice.

2. i'll "get the same" as other teachers in regards to flight reimbursement or payment, whatever that may be.
This needs to be cleared up for certain.

3. outside of the required 16 or 18 scheduled classes, i would have NO
duties whatsoever. (this is a public university). unbelievable.
This is normal, at every virtually university in China. It can actually be a little boring, you'll need something else to do in the remaining 140 hours.

4. he has no idea what transport options are available at the school's location. there is a 6-hour bus ride from the nearest city with an international airport.
Though what he says is true and probably doesn't make a huge difference, it is good to know. You can find out yourself with some study, but they should also tell you.

It can be good to let a recruiter do it in most respects, but be certain to get in direct contact with the university at least once. Make them give you contact info for at least one foreign teacher who is at the university now. Contact the foreigner by phone/skype/something similar, and make sure they have a legitimate, identifiable accent, and ask them at least one question "Would you recommend this place?" The second question should be about pay reliability/trustworthiness, then housing, then anything else. If you can't get that I'd be skeptical, there should be at least one foreign teacher with something good to say. You only need to do this before the final contract, the other doesn't matter I think.

It's common to find the same job listed on many recruiter's sites.

[Non Sequitur]

This guy is going to market you once he has you signed up.
Depending on who wants you the airfare and transport proximity will firm up.
Also he's leaving open out of classroom hours such as a requirement to do English Corners at no extra pay.
That's another pointer to the feeling he's going to hawk you around.

[choudoufu]

just to follow up, the recruiter was perusing the forums and stumbled upon this thread, sent me an email disagreeing with some of my comments. i disagree with his disagreements. no matter. it was all very polite.

i'll be continueing my search, and most likely using the servcices of a recruiter, although not this one. i just have a bad feeling about him.
he could be a fraud. on the other hand he could be the most honest and hard working recruiter out there. i guess i'll never know.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

[choudoufu]

also to maintain his anonymity. i have no proof one way or t'nother.
he could be an honest recruiter, most likely is. no sense in posting negative feedback based on my feeling.

[Non Sequitur]

An honest recruiter shouldn't mind his bona fides being examined - especially if he seems evasive. After all we have to front up with credentials plus health checks etc and stump up the cost of air travel.
I have had experience of a large state college getting all the FTs together in the first couple of weeks of semester and saying 'The contract you signed was for the purposes of getting you to China. Now here's the real contract'.

[Silent Shadow]

[Non Sequitur]

Don't want to sidetrack the OP.
I'll PM you if you are really interested.

[Silent Shadow]

Non Sequiter,

The Op asked if he should run, because he's not sure that his potential employer is legitimate. Your case sounds pretty similar in principle. Relating the results of similar circumstances, that by the sound of it indeed required FTs to run, could help the OP decide if it is wiser for him to run, in his situation. It could also help anyone of us who might find ourselves in a similar position.

If you really think that it's going off-topic, then I would not object to a PM. It would be much appreciated.

[Non Sequitur]

I'll PM.
As OP notes his 'recruiter' is able to access the site and he won't be the only one.