Job Discussion Forums

[clayuk]

After two years of working in Yangshuo. I want to give you the true facts about the set up for schools in this town.

Two years ago you could expect at least 50rmb per lesson. This has now dropped to 40rmb even though the tuition fees have risen nearly 50%

The bosses of the schools have secret monthly meeting to discuss salaries.

The bosses of the schools have no education background.

Foreign teachers are not respected in any of the school's.

Qualified teachers get paid the same as a backpacker who turns up off the street with no qualifications.

The students in the lower levels start off with a bad foundation in English, because all the schools only allow Chinese teachers to teach them.

The students do not know when a Chinese teacher makes mistakes.

None of the schools have any syllabus.

The schools give the students to much room to complain.

Most bosses let the students move levels without asking the teachers.

98% of the schools don't use books. The teacher has to plan every lesson.

All foreign teachers are on F visa's because the schools don't pay any taxes. Some schools charge for the visa.

This list goes on and on. Just come to Yangshuo for a holiday not a teaching career.

[struelle]

You might have more success in Guilin, as it's a bigger city with the higher possibility of earning more money based on merit and seeing some quality education.

If Yangshuo appeals, then the commuting could work. That is to say, save money by living in a cheaper place in Yangshuo and hit the buses to and from work. Or, live in Guilin and easily go to Yangshuo on the weekends.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

[nickpellatt]

I have been praising Yangshuo for sometime here, so have to answer in detail to support my other posts...dont delete my as a FB friend though will you...I know who you are despite the username here LOL. This is my general reply based on my experience, and isnt directed at anyone but may show another side to the yangshuo experience.

Two years ago you could expect at least 50rmb per lesson. This has now dropped to 40rmb even though the tuition fees have risen nearly 50%
The bosses of the schools have secret monthly meeting to discuss salaries.

Agree, salaries are low in Yangshuo...thats no secret. Despite any price hikes, study fees are low too. I can give two examples at my school, one student friend of mine was offered an extra months study at 1800 yuan. Another close friend paid 6600 yuan for 10 weeks study. With fees that low, salaries will also be low. For a full calender month I had no more than 5 students spread over two classes, and I was still paid as agreed. no complaints from me over FT salaries...there was no surprise after all...and I was always paid as promised....and no bait and switch tactics or anything else to lure me there.

EF/Wall Street/Disney et al, may pay a lot more, but they ask a lot more in terms of hours, evenings and weekends...and they charge a lot more in student fees too. I genuinely feel FTs cant feel hard done by when considering the overall picture in Yangshuo.

I am currently browing jobs in other places too. Some internationally recognised schools offer packages that look far worse than yangshuo offers.

The bosses of the schools have no education background.

Standard in private language schools in China I reckon, and in other countries too IMO

Foreign teachers are not respected in any of the school's.

Im not sure I agree entirely with that. In my limited experience there, I would say respect needs to be earned...but if you can show that you actually know your stuff, you will get respected. Teachers who dont know the difference between /i/ and /i:/ or dont know the difference between past perfect progressive, and present perfect do struggle to be taken seriously.

Being a native speaker with unrelated qualifications, which is exactly what many teachers in China are, doesnt exactly scream 'respect' IMO.

My students respected me, and thats the most important thing to me, and I think when my Chinese colleagues realised I was at least semi-professional, I feel I got respect from them too. Unfortunately, Chinese staff have been used to a lot of FTs who turn up with no aptitude, skills or dedication to teaching....we all have seen such FTs! With that in mind, its no wonder respect is something than needs to be earned.

Qualified teachers get paid the same as a backpacker who turns up off the street with no qualifications.

Galling, I would mostly agree with that. But I mostly worked with people who hold qualifications of some sort though. Very few backpackers 'off the street' worked in Omeida. This is EFL in China though...I dont think its too much of an issue...and I prefer to concentrate more on me, rather than worry about other people. Pay rises are offered year on year though...at Omeida anyway.

The students in the lower levels start off with a bad foundation in English, because all the schools only allow Chinese teachers to teach them.

The students do not know when a Chinese teacher makes mistakes.

Again, I think this is standard...very few people learn L2 solely from an L1 native...this isnt just China, but worldwide. I dont think there is much alternative because most native speaker teachers dont know how things like IPA, and grammar, let alone teach it to students who lack L2 skills.

Generally, and I said this in my farewell speech ... I think the Chinese teachers in private language schools do a pretty good job ... and often a far better job than the unskilled, unqualified FT's. Quite often I think students stop learning when they lose the Chinese teacher, because many FT simply dont have skills or knowledge to really teach. They just go to class and encourage free talk etc rather than actually 'teach'.

Likewise with CT's making mistakes...I dont think its a huge issue...and I see a lot of mistakes with FTs too. They do rely on L1 too much IMO, but I think thats quite common with local teaching staff.

None of the schools have any syllabus.

Not at the higher levels, FTs are left to set that...I do have issues with this, but I will address this later in the post on another question

The schools give the students to much room to complain.

Agree, but a lot of the time, the complaints start in class. Any teacher working in a private language class teaching adults will state that complaints are common. Im not a great teacher...but I had far fewer complaints than my peers, and none that ever elevated past the classroom to the education department. IMO, do a good job, and let the students know you care and you are competent, and complaints, in my experience, are few and far between

Most bosses let the students move levels without asking the teachers.

I never had that experience. I was always consulted. Sometimes I disagreed, three times I lost out in that argument. One student proved me wrong, two didnt. By the same token, I also used the 'moving up' process to benefit by moving students on to recycle material and make my life easier...This practice does cut both ways.

98% of the schools don't use books. The teacher has to plan every lesson.

This was a bind to my when I first arrived. unfortunately it was my own fault as I listened to the existing teachers who told me in no uncertain terms that 'students dont like the book' and that 'they will say you are lazy if you use print and teach stuff'.

However, this proved to be untrue...I did waste time preparing my lessons initially, and I did moan about that too. However, as I developed relationships with my students and was able to discuss things a little more honestly with them, I discovered that most of them wanted more structure in their learning.

As a result I taught pretty much exclusively from the New Interchange series and Face 2 Face, with just some supplemental material from the Guardian Weekly.

The one advantage of no books was that I did develop a number of new grammar point lessons, I also used a number of songs in class (often to teach a grammar point) and also used some OneStop pronunciation lessons.

My school did have books and materials...most teachers chose not to use them, not because they were instructed too...but simply because they didnt know any better IMO. This is linked to the syllabus question ... I feel if a teacher wants to use a book, he can and can then follow the syllabus that the book sets. Just dont expect lots of guidance here from qualified DoS type people...that doesnt really exist in China.

All foreign teachers are on F visa's because the schools don't pay any taxes. Some schools charge for the visa.

I was offered a Z/RP on arrival. Apparently they could arrange it in-country? I declined it becuase I was pretty sure I wouldnt stay past 6 months. F visa is the norm in yangshuo, and isnt something to be afraid of. Indeed, I know of a yangshuo teacher who was teaching on an L and got caught, yet suffered no punishment. Law isnt law in China...an interesting post on Middle Kingdom life on that...

Is it a tax dodge? I dont know, but I can tell you that around 4-6 weeks ago, local tax officers were in Omeida and I took part in a photo shoot with them...if schools are trying to dodge taxes...I dont think they would have tax officers on-site. What they do with their tax affairs isnt my concern though really...




Yangshuo isnt perfect...but you pay your money and take your choice as they say. I dont want to work in a big city.....I dont want to teach middle school or Kindy...and I dont want huge classes of Uni students either.

Adults in a private language college suited me, and a private language college that doesnt ask you to work evenings, weekends, or travel to in-company classes is also a big plus for me.

What I would say....and I say this with 100% honesty...is that despite the niggles that I had in China, my time at Omeida and Yangshuo was spot on. everything promised in my contract was delivered, and the communication between the school and I was also spot on. I never ever had a surprise with something being cancelled and not knowing about it, or something being arranged and not being advised of it.

In all my dealings with Odar (Omeida's owner) he was straight up and never broke a promise...he has also been very fair with my flatmates too, and in my 6 months there....I reckon he has had to put up with more grief and broken promises from FTs than he deserved.

For a new teacher...or someone new to China and not looking to make huge savings, pay off loans, support a family...I reckon yangshuo is a good move.

My experience may not be typical of every teacher, and it may not be typical of every school in Yangshuo, but these answers are my honest opinion, and are not influenced by anything but my experience. This was my 5th EFL job, 3rd in China...and I can honestly state that in terms of teaching and transparency with my employer...it was the best so far.

There are things I would change, and this includes a greater focus on course material, but in honesty...i dont think all FTs in China would be able to work to course material and 'real' teaching. I would also like to change the reliance on L1 from the local teachers, but realistically...most of us are 'just passing through' and its unlikely we have the staying power to make a real impact on changing teaching policies.

I do have an option to come back to China, but if I DONT take this option...it wont be for the reasons listed above...I am very keen on professional development, teaching Cambridge exam courses, and teaching all the skills...None of these opportunities exist in Oral language colleges of course. I dont think there is anything hugely wrong with Yangshuo, but it isnt the sort of teaching I want to do forever.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

[nickpellatt]

Although the students I refer to may be called 'false beginners', they really do start from scratch in the basic classes that are taught exclusively by Chinese teachers. They dont have a foundation Cleric. At best, I guess they are the students who slept through any English classes 10 years prior to coming to study at a private language college, and havent used or encountered English in the 10 years since sleeping their way through class.

I can only speak as I find, and this may be particular to the place I was at...but I think it is common for students to spend 3-6 months learning a lot of structure and rules, often from course material that follows a pattern of learning.

What can then happen...is they enter a class with an FT, who doesnt know grammar, doesnt understand any (or many) of the rules of English, and precedes to tell them 'grammar doesnt matter' and ignore it entirely to just hold free talk topics on subjects that may or may not have any relevance, often teaching vocabulary that may or may not have relevance. Any mistakes may be corrected, but the root cause of the mistake is left because the Ft doesnt actually know it themselves. These are motivated adult students who dont have a 'face' issue when it comes to speech, and they are in a pretty good language environment to speak...

Unskilled / unqualifed FTs may have some use to language students ... but I think that use is limited unless students have a fantastic foundation and good study skills. The students I refer to arent entering Ft classes at Upper-Int, but closer to elementary. If you know the Interchange series....Think the red book. By the time they reach the blue book, they have no Chinese teacher at all. This means no one who can reinforce grammar rules and remind students why they are making mistakes.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

well nick, without belabouring the point too much more, from what you've written above, and from what many of us in China already know, the fault for poor language learning can be placed more at the feet of the Chinese system of teaching English and the students themselves and less at the feet of the unqualified FTs, who are still hired on despite having little or no qualifications.

Personally, the students I've taught who performed best were those who bucked traditional Chinese thinking and actually took some initiative to learn more on their own. The ones who needed to be spoon-fed everything (the majority) were the slowest and the worst students.

[nickpellatt]

[colonel]