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eclectic
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 1122
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 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:42 am Post subject: Friendliness Index |
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Limiting the discussion (if there is one) to Korea, Taiwan, China, VN, Indo, Malaysia, Thai, Sing, Brunei, Laos, which se asian nations would rank at the top of the Friendliness INdex, and which at the bottom? By friendliness I mean a genuine interest in mingling with foreigners/a genuine desire to learn about new things and have open-minded conversations in a manner that, over time, would foster a lasting friendship between the foreigner and the citizen of whichever country mentioned above.
This OP was inspired by a "single woman in Japan" lament on another thread, reminding me that the healthy human interaction aspect (or lack thereof) may be the lynchpin in the entire overseas experience. |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 313
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Wow. Well, in Malaysia it depends upon where you want to survey, and amongst what ethnic group.
If we talk about the Chinese and Indians in Malaysia, then Malaysia would come out high on the Friendliness Index. If we consider the Malays, Malaysia will be at the bottom of that list of countries. Malays are polite, but not friendly. City Malays will be slightly more friendly than country Malays, but still lower than Chinese/Indians (Tamils). |
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wailing_imam
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 580
Location: Malaya
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Silly. |
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eclectic
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| interesting. and I feel relevant. I didnt know most INdians there are Tamil? Guess cause Tamil Nadu is the closest part of India to Malaysia, in part? as well as Sri Lanka. must be a fair amount of sambhar and dosa restaurants then, THANKS BE TO GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (read: sick unto death of korean fried chicken, korean pizza, bibimbap and instant noodles/longing for those good ol' SOuth Indian meals I ate daily in NJ for years) |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| KayuJati wrote: |
| Malays are polite, but not friendly. City Malays will be slightly more friendly than country Malays, but still lower than Chinese/Indians (Tamils). |
Next time, please preface your observations with "I believe that" or "In my experience" or "In my opinion." 
I guess you've had the misfortune to hang around the wrong people. I've had the good fortune to travel, work, and live in Malaysia (many areas) since the early 1970s. My experiences have been far from yours.
If, however, you ARE Malaysian, then I think your opinions are understandable. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Friendliness Index |
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| eclectic wrote: |
| Limiting the discussion (if there is one) to Korea, Taiwan, China, VN, Indo, Malaysia, Thai, Sing, Brunei, Laos, which se asian nations would rank at the top of the Friendliness INdex, and which at the bottom |
I have to hand it to you, eclectic. No stone is left unturned in your ongoing research.
But without coming across as a miserable git who generalises lots, I think your Korean experience might not be so different from that in the rest of Asia. Not many westerners make long-term Asian friends.
Apart from hangers on and my 12,887,403,756 Facebook Farmville friends, my years in Asia left me with a couple of fellow English (real) friends and a Malaysian wife.
Just go and have good times. If you make real friends, it�s a bonus. |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 313
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| KayuJati wrote: |
| Malays are polite, but not friendly. City Malays will be slightly more friendly than country Malays, but still lower than Chinese/Indians (Tamils). |
Next time, please preface your observations with "I believe that" or "In my experience" or "In my opinion."
I guess you've had the misfortune to hang around the wrong people. I've had the good fortune to travel, work, and live in Malaysia (many areas) since the early 1970s. My experiences have been far from yours.
If, however, you ARE Malaysian, then I think your opinions are understandable. |
I have lived in Malaysia for 14 years. The past 10, I have worked in a near-100% Malay environment. I speak Malay; I teach engineering in Malay to classes that are 99% Malay students. I spend 40 hours a week surrounded by Malay colleagues and students. I have been friendly with most of them, but find that they are reluctant to make friends outside their own circle. Even amongst themselves, they are very clichy.
I have met many expats who live in Malaysia, but mostly hang out with Chinese and Tamil residents. Is that your experience? Have you lived in Malaysia, amongst Malays, for any great length of time? Or have you just traveled throughout the region since the 1970s?
But, I will concede that KL and Penang Malays are PROBABLY different from those on the east coast, where I live. And KL and Penang is where most expats live also. I oversaw a group of MBA students for three years, both in KL and Kuantan. Attitudes between the two groups was often different, sometimes similar. The KL group was far more argumentative, something that is unusual for Malays. |
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eclectic
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| But without coming across as a miserable git who generalises lots |
 I recall the 1st and nearly last time I saw the word git, I was about 13 years old and was reding the back of The Monkees' Headquarters album, and there's a tune called Randy Skouse Git -- hard to get it exactly its been about 33 years since that day-- whenever I see it I always remember that album and song.
Thx 4 the memories Hod. 
I try not to generalize but know full well how despicably guilty I am of having done it far too often. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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See my responses in blue.
| KayuJati wrote: |
I spend 40 hours a week surrounded by Malay colleagues and students. I have been friendly with most of them, but find that they are reluctant to make friends outside their own circle. Even amongst themselves, they are very clichy.
If your experience is restricted to people you know from your job, then it is likely to be different from mine. However, I've also socialized with and even lived among people from my jobs. They never seemed reluctant to socialize outside of work and "make friends."
Have you lived in Malaysia, amongst Malays, for any great length of time?
Yes, for a total of about 7 years (the last period ended in October 2009). And I've also lived in Indonesia for a longer total of years. In fact, I find no great difference between Malays and non-Chinese (i.e., Malay) Indonesians in friendliness and welcoming attitudes.
I can speak and read both Bhs Malaysia and Bhs Indonesia, as well as a few regional Indonesian languages. So I don't think I've been missing anything in my communications with them. And I really haven't experienced significant qualitative differences between Malaysians of Chinese/Tamil ethnicities and Malays. Maybe it's just me! Or it could be the types of jobs and cultural/social activities that I've pursued. |
People who know me on these forums will know that I have an aversion to generalizations about entire races and ethnicities based on personal experiences. My experiences are mine; your experiences are yours and no less valid than mine. But please don't generalize! That's why it's always best to preface remarks with "In my experience..." or "In my opinion..." or "I believe that..." |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 313
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| People who know me on these forums will know that I have an aversion to generalizations about entire races and ethnicities based on personal experiences. My experiences are mine; your experiences are yours and no less valid than mine. But please don't generalize! That's why it's always best to preface remarks with "In my experience..." or "In my opinion..." or "I believe that..." |
Totally ridiculous request.
When people make comments in forums like these, it is by nature their opinion. There is no need to state it explicitly.
I have seen many of your posts and have not seen you make such qualified statements. You also tend to use the declarative sentences, when in fact, it is your opinion. I don't have a problem in identifying those sentences as opinion, not fact. Why do you have a problem?
Certainly your experiences are no less valid than those of anyone else. But, you are quite vague with the specifics of your experiences, so how can someone evaluate the validity of your experiences for them??
Lumping Malays, Chinese, and Indians (Tamil) into the general term "Malaysians" perhaps shows your lack of experience in Malaysia and its racial reality. It does a disservice to those who want some information before making the decision about moving here to live and work. And Indonesia is VERY different from Malaysia. This info comes from many friends, Malaysians, and Indonesians who have been both places.
There are LARGE differences between races of people, and someone asking about those differences -for whatever reason- will continue to get my take on it. I usually do not comment outside my area of experience, however.
Regards. |
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eclectic
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah 1 reason I asked is because my wife is of Indian descent-- her maternal grandparents was born in Patna and Calcutta respectively, before emigrating to Guyana. Guess we kinda wanted to know the Indian aspects of Malaysian society for several reasons. Glad to get the info
Pls dudes don't fight I dont want this thread getting locked, its helping me alot thanks to all of you. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| KayuJati wrote: |
| Lumping Malays, Chinese, and Indians (Tamil) into the general term "Malaysians" perhaps shows your lack of experience in Malaysia and its racial reality. |
Oh. And they are not all Malaysians by definition? You should try to make such a statement to Malaysians who reside overseas. They seem to overcome their differences when they are outside the claustrophobic confines of their own communities. In fact, they are quite proud to call themselves "Malaysians."
Unfortunately, I know only too well the "racial reality" of Malaysia today. You should understand that it was not always like this. However, your comments help to perpetuate the racialist quality of life there today. You have become like them: making stereotyped (and unmeasurable) generalizations about the character of an entire group of people -- which is the definition of the word racism.
The fact that you have not been able to make many friends among your Malay work colleagues and students might speak more to your own attitudes and personality than to anything intrinsic in the Malay people. I repeat: I have NOT had the same experience, and I've easily made friends with Malays in many contexts: work, school, and cultural activities.
So my opinion, based on my own lengthy experience, is that Malays are very friendly people and very welcoming. And so are Malaysian Chinese and Indian people.
As eclectic says, this thread has gone off on an odd tangent. I shall not contribute to its prolongation! |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 313
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| The fact that you have not been able to make many friends among your Malay work colleagues and students might speak more to your own attitudes and personality than to anything intrinsic in the Malay people. I repeat: I have NOT had the same experience, and I've easily made friends with Malays in many contexts: work, school, and cultural activities. |
Well, Mr. Cowell, you started this when you made your ridiculous request.
Your emboldened statement is not a fact. Perhaps you should have said "In my opinion, it appears that you have had trouble making friends...." rather than stating it as a fact. Please, take your own medicine.
I never said that I had not made friends with Malays. I have made a LOT of friends, but I said that it wasn't as easy as it is with the Chinese and Indians. Eclectic wanted our opinions on the friendliness of various racial groups, and I believe he meant for it to be people living within those countries, not residing in the USA. |
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