Job Discussion Forums

[Subkulture]

I have been offered a job in Ashikaga, Tochigi Prefecture. The salary is 210,000. Is that enough to live comfortably on?

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

What does 'comfortably' mean to you? What they're offering you is several hundred dollars below what used to be the entry level salary.

What will the start-up costs be (key money, stuff you have to buy for your apartment etc)? Unless you have several thousand dollars already, then you will likely need to pay for all that stuff out of your pay.

It's enough on a regular basis if your rent isn't all that much (like, less than $500 [50,000Y]- which means that it will be a pretty small apartment, really just one small main room that will be used for pretty much everything, then a kitchen area and a bathroom area that is pretty much in a tiny hallway that leads to that one room- this kind of thing is common in big cities like Tokyo [where it would be much, much more expensive], but in a rural prefecture like Tochigi it's definitely NOT the norm for English teachers- the larger apartment sort or serves to offset the greater isolation), you don't want to/ need to save or pay off any bills for outside of Japan at all, and you already know for a surety that you won't be going out after work very often at all. But sometimes your employer (especially when they are offering very low wages) will offer to loan you start-up fees from your first paycheque. If that's the case, then it is likely that you won't be living within most people's definition of 'comfortable' for a while.

So if your definition of live comfortably includes:

- having more than one really small room in your apartment
- being able to go out to an inexpensive bar (similar to the $5 a beer kind) a couple of times a week (for a COUPLE of drinks- not getting super-drunk!), or a little bit more expensive kind (the almost $10 a pint kind) once a week and still be able to pay off at least a bit of your student loans.
-not fairly seriously debating with yourself as to whether or not you can afford it when you're really hungry and you pass a McDonalds (assuming that the debate isn't about health things) or even a $2 sandwich from 7/11 when it's coming up to pay-day.
-some sort of internet in your home (but not cable/ satellite TV)
- a cell phone plan that actually does mail (if your cell phone doesn't do mail, you can expect to have almost zero social life in Japan)
- joining clubs / meeting people and going on dates etc

(in other words the kind of life that up until recently pretty much all foreigners were able to lead)

Then the answer is, "No. You won't be able to live comfortably on that salary in Ashikaga." (BUT, if you have no debts whatsoever and have no desire to save [meaning you would leave Japan with zero that you don't already have, and that you don't spend while you're here by getting money wired to you if you blow your tight budget and are starving], then you could probably have the above described lifestyle, possibly, but not definitely, with the exception of the size of apartment).

[Apsara]

I agree with GBBB- we need to know what that 210,000 would have to cover to know whether it would be comfortable or not. Your rent would be a major factor. You can certainly live off 210,000 a month in Ashikaga- it's a pretty small town so rent and entertainment costs shouldn't be that high (unless you go to Tokyo every weekend to party).

[Mr_Monkey]

As I understand it, the legallly mandated minimum salary is still �250,000/month. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can (dis)confirm this.

Can you live "comfortably" on �210,000/month? Perhaps; it depends on you and your habits.

However, you should be aware that you are colluding in the denigration of the work that English teachers do - both in terms of the financial value that you demand/expect/happily suck up from the position you take, and the social and individual value that the Japanese government places on you, personally, by allowing blatantly illegal practices (such as paying a teacher significantly less than the minima stated by Japanese immigration law) to become the"norm".

[Apsara]

[fluffyhamster]

I thought that the 250K pcm was only a recommended figure, but even if it were a "strict" legal requirement, there are nowadays quite a few jobs (pro-rated and/or dispatch yadda yadda) where teachers are lucky to receive on average even half that, as any tax slip (which one may be asked to present to Immigration the following year, when renewing one's visa) will testify. (Edit: I see Apsara has added some more figures).

Anyway, I doubt if the Japanese government will really care about enforcing whatever necessary minimum levels of pay until such time as mad starvation-driven English teachers start hijacking taxis and ram-raiding vending machines or something.

[Subkulture]

The rent in the contract is listed as 55,000-60,000 plus utilities such as water, gas, and electric.

By "comfortable" I mean having a little bit of money left over at the end of the month about $200 and not having to stress of money to the last penny.

Is it worth taking this position just to get over to Japan, maybe struggle for a year under this contract and then find better work elsewhere in Japan?

It's close enough to Tokyo to go there for better employment.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

It MAY be close enough to go there for better employment- in that you could interview on your day off (but if you work Monday through Friday, then that means you may have to pull a sickie to interview). Tochigi is thought of as being very far from Tokyo.

I would say no, you would not be able to save really anything on that salary at all, but it could be possible, even paying what amounts to almost a third of your pre-tax income on rent alone (depending on the age of the apartment, you could end up a LOT on electricity because walls have no insulation here and so old apartments will be brutally hot in summer, and ridiculously cold in winter)- if you REALLY like cup noodles. Again, nobody here really knows how much you want to go out, if you buy things like CDs, books in English etc, so we don't know how much you will really use for living costs.

Keep in mind that it works out to about $12 an hour (based on 45 hour week, which is what you usually work in any big box store). That's not a lot more than minimum wage in Ontario, and it's less than a lot of people slinging coffee at Starbucks earn.

Always keep in mind two things: 1. almost ALL jobs outside of conversation schools (and conversation schools are going under now) start April 1. there are a few that start at the beginning of September, but usually it means that there was something so bad about the job that somebody bailed on them.

2. There are far more than enough people already in Japan looking for work that they don't really need to advertise outside of Japan... unless there is something about it that makes the job so bad that they can't get anybody already in the country to take it.

In this particular case, both number 1 and 2 could be explained by "they're paying little, with high rent for an area out in the middle of nowhere" [sometimes companies inflate the cost of the rent that they deduct from your pay and just don't tell you. They make a profit off your accommodations] and unless you have contacts in Tokyo or want to stay in the middle of nowhere you could end up feeling trapped out away from all the action [because companies can and do do things to sort of trap you where you are if you are in the middle of nowhere because it's so hard for them to find anybody to replace you, and when you live out away from anywhere it feels like you have no options because without contacts, qualifications and experience, it can be difficult to get other companies to look at you, simply because you live way out there, and there are so many applicants who don't- they don't need housing etc].

BUT, all of this and what everybody else will tell you is pure conjecture. It could be a great company. It could be a company that has contracts with schools in Chiba etc and so you could transfer there. It could be that they are lovely, open people who talk to you as a professional and are actually interested in you (the second most important thing) and the teachers at the school where you will be working are also lovely people, open people who talk to you as a professional and are actually interested in you (the single most important thing- even more than how much the students work). But then, we don't even know if it's a dispatch company- it could be an eikaiwa, or a juku, or even a direct hire.

It's not worth taking a job that will make your life miserable day in and day out just to be able to get a better job the following year, but again, there is no way to know if that will be the situation here because the single most important part of any job, but especially in an area with very little in the way of a possible social life is the people you work with. And there is no way to know that until you actually get here.

Is it a contract for a full year? Or a contract that lasts until the end of next March. If it's until the end of next March, then it will probably be worth it, because you'd be here for hiring season for next year. If it's until next August, then you have to remember that you may have a big problem trying to get a better job the following year unless you actually quit (and that looks bad, bad bad).

[Mr_Monkey]

[rxk22]

Man 210,000 really isn't much. Unless you're desperate, I'd say no. Also how much do they pay you during your breaks? It usually goes down a lot. Imagine getting 100,000 for August and Dec. Add in moving/plane and other costs, and it may cost you money to live in Japan at that salary.

BTW I lived in the country in Chiba and had a 2k house for 45,000 a month.

[Cool Teacher]

Actually I only gt about that much too. Not enough? Yes but I do get bonuses and I do get paid in the holidays. Do you get paid in the holidays? Do you get bonuses? If you do it isn't bad I think.

[Hot-Carl]

[Glenski]

What kind of job is this? Are there bonuses included? Is there reduced pay during training or other times? ALTs get reduced pay for a whole month a couple times a year (reduced = 60% of regular pay).

With the rent figure you cited (right in line with figures I cite for average, on the low end), you should probably also consider about 10,000-15,000 per month for rent. Add to that phone (perhaps as low as 30,000 for setup of a land line, 10,000 for setup of a cell phone, and then about 3500-8000 per month thereafter for phone/Internet service. There may also be an additional 10,000 setup for a land line Internet. So sort out which phone/Internet options you want.

Food will run 30,000-50,000 per month.
Insurance the first year is 2500 per month for national health insurance (kokumin kenko hoken), or higher if your employer pays into shakai hoken. Second year, kokumin goes up tenfold.

Those are the basic necessities.

Does the employer pay for commuting? Most do.
Does the employer make you work overtime? They need to pay 1-1.25 times regular pay for that.

So, just based on finances, you will have some left over after a pay period, yes. How you spend it, save it, blow it, etc. depends entirely on you.
Cable/Satellite TV.
Hair care.
Magazine/newspaper subscriptions.
Long distance calls.
Entertainment nightly.
Weekend sightseeing.

And, don't forget to have something for emergency medical care.
Plus you'll probably make a trip home at least once a year.

Yes, you'll have money left over, but what you do with it is entirely up to you. Others have given you good advice (pretty much what I've been giving for the past 13 years).

[TokyoLiz]

Subkulture wrote

[ssjup81]