Job Discussion Forums

[abe128]

I have been trying to contact centers in China that issue the Cambridge CELTA Program with frustrating results; ie, none.

To clarify: I've attempted to e-mail and telephone the centers in Beijing, Shanghai, and Wuchang. My e-mails, delivered about two weeks ago, haven't been returned, and there was even one case where my e-mail "failed permanetly" due to "domain name not found".

In an attempt to short cut the long distance gap I've tried contacting the New York and Boston centers via telephone. I haven't heard back from them yet, but those calls were put in not too long ago (two days past).

Who can help me out here?

[Johnny_Utah]

unless you want to teach in beijing / shanghai / hongkong/, there is honestly no need for a celta. Actual class room experience with Chinese adults will be much more useful than some class on how to teach them.

REALLY

I only mention the big 3 because competition is so fierce a celta & experience are both often needed.

[nickpellatt]

I wouldnt really want to do a Trinty/CELTA in China. Generally the teaching in China is not quite the same as it is in other areas of the world, and bearing that in mind, the course experience may suffer because of said standards. I have done some teacher training in China...and whilst you can teach input sessions no matter where you are in the world, the actual teaching practice 'may' be limited in China...

China doesnt really rank very highly as a professional EFL environment. There may be exceptions...but this is the general opinion of many on EFL China.

Are you in Asia now? Would it be possible to do a course with one of the big providers in Vietnam? ILA/Apollo etc.

If you are not in China ... do the course where you are...thats what I would do anyway.

And I would suggest a recognised course is worth doing regardless. It will make you a better teacher, and make you equipped to teach in other parts of the world, as experience in China often doesnt count for much in other places.

[abe128]

Thank you both for your response.

I have heard that competition is high in the bigger cities, fortunately I am not dead-set on teaching in one. However, I would like the satisfaction of knowing that the certificate I am paying for will help me find work anywhere; this includes countries other than China.

Taking the CELTA course in America, where I currently reside, would be the best bet. The problem with this option is finances: the only cities that offer it are the larger ones that would require just as much expenditure on housing as on the actual course. Also, as a two-months-and-counting-alumni of college, my mom and I have established that this last investment into a plane ticket and a 4 week course in China would be her 'ciao bella' to my dependence.

I looked at the websites for ILA and Apollo and they seem to be very sound programs. The only reason I am choosing to pursue a course in China is because I have some experience with it, however Vietnam seems to be an easier EFL atmosphere to navigate through due to its size and greatly reduced number of options.

If I don't go with a CELTA program, and I lean further away from it every day, then I will probably choose TEFL International. They have a program in Zhuhai that seems credible. There are just so many different routes to take! Any opionions on that course or city?

[nickpellatt]

I would still go for Vietnam if I were you, if you decide to stay the course provider will probably be able to offer something, if you still want to head to China you still can. Its not so far so the cost will be minimal, and you will have had the experience of another country prior to China.

TEFL International has had some bad press on the forums, some of which should probably be taken with a pinch of salt really. There is a thread in the newbie forum about them.

CELTA/Trinity courses teach a very student centred teaching approach of all the skills, and I have a feeling this may not sit well within China. Most EFL in China consists of conversation classes, with grammar/listening/reading often being taught by Chinese teachers. Lots of Chinese students have been so conditioned to this that they may only see FT's as conversation coaches, and I wonder if this might seep into a teaching practice? This is my main reason for suggesting taking the course elsewhere.

The same may be typical of other Asian countries, but ILA and the like do have big teaching operations that work to these student centred methods, and should be better equipped and prepared to overcome this IMO.

Teaching in China is often poorly regarded by employers in other countries, and I wonder if TEFL courses taken within China may suffer from the same comparison? Its a lot of money, and if the course costs are similar between your choices, I would take the more recognised course with the big name provider.

I dont think the course content or input sessions offered would be any worse within China, and these do make up a big part of the course content...I just think the teaching practice, the key component, might not be as vauable. Add the issue that some employers may hold a qualification taken in China less seriously...its just a no-brainer in your situation IMO.

[michgreen]

Regardless of country, if it is a true CELTA course, they teach the same curriculum. There are 3 official CELTA centres in China; Beijing, Shanghai, and Wuchang. I have heard that the centre in Shanghai is taught by western instructors.

[nickpellatt]

Every course, everywhere will be from Western instructors! And they will teach from a similar set of materials, but they are not identical. They must adhere to set guidelines, but wont always cover the same topics although they do share the core material and tasks.

[michgreen]

What do you mean that they don't cover the same topics?

As a former CELTA trainer (in South Africa & the Middle East), we follow the same units as CELTA trainers in other parts of the world. The variation comes from the trainers' personal experiences. I taught a CELTA course in South Africa but I had never taught in South Africa. The anecdotes I gave my students were from my experiences teaching in Asia, India, Sri Lanka, the Middle East, Russia, Ukraine, USA... . The other variation comes when we prepare students for the teaching practicum (but thats a given).

The units/ material are identical for a CELTA; the focus on SLA, pedagogy, methodology, lesson planning etc are the same, its just the anecdotes that are different. A certificate can't prepare you for all the different/ specific learners that you would face.

A certificate (CELTA, TESL...) is to prepare students to teach in an ESL/EFL context. Some do it better than others. I'm not advocating for one certificate over the other, but the OP was talking about China. Why should he/ she go to Vietnam to get a certificate to teach in China? Unless its cheaper and easier (visa...) to do.

[nickpellatt]

Perhaps I have made an assumption based on my experience and knowledge of the Trinity course...forgive me if I have I believed both operated in a very similar way?

For example. I took my Trinity at the exact same time as a friend of mine, but with different course providers. The content of our course was not the same. She had a number of input sessions regarding evaluating course books and had an assignment on that. I had merely one input session and no assignment.

She had 4 lessons of unknown language, as did I, but on my course we had to write an assignment based upon our reflections as language learners.

The course has a core that is central to all courses regardless of provider....but not all modules and assignments are set in stone, only some of them. I have read many posts and talked about CELTA with people and they had suggested that course was run the same way. As a previous CELTA trainer you may know better than I on that count...I can only vouch for Trinity.

As an CELTA teacher trainer, perhaps you could answer this question...which may in turn answer mine

If you were in a position to employ and hire people in a school outside of China...let say.....Poland.

You have two applications.

One from someone who has taken a generic certificate within China. And someone who has taken a CELTA with one of the big name companies outside China. Both have similar teaching experience...who would you favour?

I would find it hard to believe that many employers would view the first CV in the same way they would view the second one...and that is why I have made my suggestion. He is thinking about working elsewhere in the future

[michgreen]

Thanks for answering the question. You have a good point. I will say, the discrepancies within a course may have something to do with how strong the trainer is on certain topics.

In answer to your question. I would find out
1) in-country
2) how many hours: 60, 80, 120
3) teaching practice

If the generic certificate was 60 hrs and no teaching practice except for teaching for the school that offered the course in the first place, I would go with the CELTA or another brand name certificate Trinity/ RSA, SIT� that meet the above conditions.

But, when it comes to hiring a teacher, experience trumps certificate. I�m more interested in where the person taught and what they taught. For me, is the teacher flexible, independent, and tolerant of ambiguities? A certificate is just a piece of paper- the icing on the cake if they have experience. It helps with accreditation and looks good on advertisements.

[abe128]

It appears that even though a TEFL certificate would be a viable option, a CELTA, if one has the ability to obtain it, would be the better of the two choices.

I agree with the point nickpellatt brought up about both courses costing about the same: why wouldn't I invest in the greater of the two?

It also helps to know that CELTA courses are uniformly constituted. My only worry is that michgreen qualified that statement with "if it is a true CELTA course". I'm sure going with a well known provider would guarentee this qualification.

[michgreen]

A TEFL certificate is just the generic name for the certificate. CELTA, Trinity are brand names but they are TEFL/TESL certificates. To find a 'true' CELTA course go to Cambridge's website.

What you want to find is a TEFL certificate program that offers a balance of theory and practice regarding pedagogy and methodology, taught by qualified trainers, and includes a minimum of 100 instructional hours plus a supervised practice teaching component.

[sharpe88]

the CELTA I took in China is the same as anywhere in the world, and was given by excellent trainers.

English classes in China for FT's usually are conversational, but CELTA/TEFL skills will still help immensely. A little experience will teach you how to deal with those pre-conceived expectations (on the part of students and employers).

[Adeem]

I agree wholeheartedly with Mich and Sharp-e above.

A CELTA is a CELTA. Hit the Cambridge website to check.

Don;t waste time with generic qualifications if mom is paying. If you ever want to do more serious things in EFL in the future, or work in different countries, get the brand name certificate now.

The Shanghai course is taught by Australia-based CELTA trainers, who come over once a year to teach the course.