Job Discussion Forums

[Non Sequitur]

Greg
Don't try to front end load this too much with conditions.
Have this uni get you here, accommodated and teaching.
When you've done your first gig, move in the direction that attracts you in subsequent jobs.
If you're any good and they want to retain you next year, the question of where you live may be more negotiable.

[raclyn72]

I agree with alot of what the other folks have been suggesting. I have worked at schools where the housing has been provided and it's just been not worth the hassle. At one uni, the woman in charge of the ft's apartments would go into them whenever she felt like it and when I confronted my fao about this was "she should be fired". She wasn't and she's been there for years. So for the past 5 years now I just rent my own place off campus. Yeah, it's a bit of a hassle with bills and getting stuff repaired but so worth the notion that it is mine!

Sometimes at schools it's just a big room and quite the dump.

So if it's your first time in China maybe you could live at the school provided apartment for the first term(see if you like it and get a feel for the city) then you could get your own place for the second term or longer if you're staying there.

If the going gets rough at your school you always got your haven. I've had schools opening my mail and other weird stuff(it always gets turned around to it's my fault somehow) and just think well at least I know you're not going thru my house.


If they insist that you live on campus, yeah, I'd be looking for a new job. I also think when they hear you want to live off campus -they think that you've got your hand out for some compensation. I will pay for that little bit of total privacy myself and my employer has nothing to do with what I do outside of the classroom.

[nickpellatt]

[kukiv]

Nick have you ever lived on a campus - places with gates, security guards,and restrictions and annoyances that impede on freedom and your own personal privacy?????

Did you ever have a job that refused you the right to find your own housing???????

Having housing provided by a school and have to live under campus rules are two different matters - so far i have never seen Nick write of his time living and teaching on a Chinese uni campus.

[nickpellatt]

For Kukiv

I did three months volunteering at a Middle School, and stayed in dorm blocks. There was a block for teachers, and this was opposite the block for male students. 1 room with air-con, a rear balcony (which wasnt overlooked) with cooking facilities, washing facilities and shower room off said balcony. I shared with one other guy for 3 months....oh, also had internet BTW. Middle School gates were locked at around 11pm I think? (this was in 2006 so I might have the time wrong...perhaps at was 11.30?)

It wasnt ideal, but for a short time as a volunteer it was actually OK, and fun. If I was out especially late I would just climb the gates or wall...just as middle school students across China do!! I probably wouldnt choose this housing again though unless something else about the job (salary/location/hours) was very special.

I then worked at a public college, and had a shared 4 bed, two stories house on campus. I shared this with one other male teacher. Some of the classrooms were within 100 metres so it was convenient. I think the gates were locked very late at night....but it never bothered me, I am happy to come home merry at midnight, and was never locked out...my housemate did occasionally have issues at 4am in having to wake the guards though! I had an on-campus shop next door to me which would sometimes wake me at 6am when they put their shutters up, but the convenience of the shop on my doorstep outweighed that. I was here for 18 months or so, and sometimes it was lonely, so being able to walk outside and be amongst people was kinda nice sometimes. I would accept this housing again.

Last job I had housing provided in the form of a single room with private WC in a shared apartment. The shared part was kitchen and living room, and I shared with a 24 yr old American man, and a 62 yr old Aussie woman. (Im 41 BTW). This apartment was a 10 minute walk from school which was a major inconvenience when I had split shifts...especially when the weather was hot and humid...they did have housing closer to the college but no rooms were available there when I arrived...and later I didnt want to pack up and move. My split shifts werent as bad as some experience...one lesson from 08.30 - 10.20 and the next from 14.30 - 16.10...but hanging around a school is a waste of time for me, Id rather be at home drinking tea and listening to music!

In all three of these example...I had no worries about security...and it was nice to arrive in China and just get a place to stay without any additional costs, worries etc. Each place had internet, AC and hot water...and was provided free of charge without any bills. On the rare occasion I had a problem, I could speak to the people I worked for, all English speakers, who addressed problems for me as quickly as could reasonably be expected. A broken lock was attended to the same evening it was reported for example.

In each of these places, I never asked about living off campus, or elsewhere in private housing. Was not interested and saw no need to ask. I have just agreed contracts for a new job in the EU, and when job hunting I only looked for jobs with housing provided. I do have simple needs and can live simply, perhaps not everyone is the same. As mentioned, I do not view my housing as a 'home', because frankly...it isnt. It is simple a place I stay for the duration of my contract. For this reason...simplicity is the key, and jobs that provide housing fit my needs very well.

I should add...a job in a city with housing that required a 30 minute bus ride across town would be something I would never, ever consider in a million years! Living away from home comes with complications and inconveniences, and I dont want to add any sort of commute or travelling to make life in a new country harder. A squat toilet isnt something I find inconvenient, and a leather settee isnt a must have for me either. A commute of any sort and hassles about finding housing would be inconvenient to me. I should also say that I dont really want to spend my time in another country within the 4 walls of my home...I want to be out with people, or even out alone in my new surroundings...so an ultra comfortable home that you want to buy paintings for, and/or other things to make it look pretty isnt my bag.

Hope that adds enough details for you Kukiv, I can link you to a blog if you want photos!

[kukiv]

After reading Nick's post we can understand why some employers take the view that FT's are cheap, easy to push around commodities!!!!!

Choosing where your live - is a basic right - and certainly not something to be confused with a convenient and simple introduction to working in China. Every time an FT decides to capitulate to poor conditions or the unreasonable demands of an employer - so the more difficult it becomes for the next FT.

[Greg 09]

I suppose if a teacher is perfectly happy with living on-campus he is neither capitulating nor being pushed around. He was given an offer and accepted it, no questions. It seems to me that's what Nick did. If I were much younger and/or fresh out of college I would probably do the same.

The only "basic right" I see in operation here is to either accept or reject an offer. Any attempt to transfer "basic rights" from the West to a place like China seems to me an exercise in futility.

I can also understand why FAOs in China may like to keep their FTs close at hand, even though I may not agree with the policy. I guess too that there are FAOs, and then there are FAOs. Control freaks are everywhere.

Anyway, it may be a moot point since I've not heard from my man at the Uni since I gently pushed the off-campus living point. I was very polite.

[nickpellatt]

You had noted that you hadnt seen any post that referred to my housing...now you have. My post contains some details and the OP can decide what would or wouldnt suit his needs. Maybe he has similar needs, maybe he doesnt, I did note that not everyone is the same.

Maybe you can share some details of your current EFL position and the housing provided, or perhaps refused? Your current EFL experience within China might provide another angle for the OP to consider and make decisions upon rather than just making general rants.

[nickpellatt]

The only "basic right" I see in operation here is to either accept or reject an offer. I agree, to accept or reject based on an informed decision


Greg, I feel that you need to decide what is important to you in your job. There can be many different things that attract many different people..

Working hours
Salary
Class sizes
Student age groups
Location
Type of institution
Benefits and holidays
Access to, or isolation from other foreigners
etc

I hope I have shown through my experience, that on-campus housing isnt something that everyone will hate or refuse or feel restricted by. If you are happy with the job for all the things that matter to you, turning down that 'dream' job on account of the housing could be a mistake.

[Greg 09]

Non Sequitur - These same thoughts went through my head, and if I hear back from this school I may end up taking the campus housing anyway.

Its not such a huge deal to live off-campus, just a preference, and I was kind of taken aback when he told me their policy. Had I more experience I may have handled it differently.

My main reason is that I'll be working on a Master's and studying Chinese when I'm not teaching, so I'd really like to be able to hunker down in a place without a lot distraction. Maybe the school apt. would be ok.

[mdovell]

I've lived in student housing before..it was interesting..

The room was ok..a/c and hot water were the main uses of power..couldn't use both at the same time..the bed was kinda rough..

bathroom was fine

laundry was iffy though the floor shared a washer.

quiet as a mouse on campus though.

gated area pretty secure from what I can see...campuses can be pretty large and I can see why it was gated because it was mostly pedestrian traffic. I don't think students were allowed cars at least inside the gate.

In another school I visited apparently they had something with the #5 because everything seemed to be on the 5th floor! no elevators either...might be one thing to consider if the legs aren't always up to par.

[Greg 09]

duplicate

[Non Sequitur]

Good luck Greg
China will be a challenge no matter what housing or workload or whatever is on offer.
Thanks also NickPellat. I've always found you posts informative. Not so happy with one response though. Getting close to flaming in my view.

[kukiv]

In my book - being told how to live your life outside your working hours - as in being made to live on-campus - is a pretty serious erosion of personal rights, which greatly degrades your freedom of life-style choice and places you more at the whim of your employers.

This is a fact - regardless of both my own standing or experience of EFL in China and how others have been able to cope with on-campus living!!!!!!

For those who choose on-campus life - good luck - but for those who are forced into it because they are not allowed to have any choice - well thats a whole other ball-game, which many responsible FT's would not choose to tollerate.

[Greg 09]