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Traffic deaths in KSA
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
johnslat wrote:
Dear 007,

"Statistically and socially speaking, fatalism and pre-determination have nothing to do with the road deaths in the Gulf. "

And your basis for making this totally absurd claim is???


Keep this up and I'm going to start doubting you ever WERE in the Kingdom.

Regards,
John
Regards,
John

Dear John

"Keep this up and I'm going to start doubting you ever WERE in the Kingdom."

And your basis for making this totally absurd claim is???

I'm going to start doubting you are/were influenced by the Magic Kingdom's fatalism! Laughing

Regards,

007.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dear 007,

Seriously - I cannot believe that you can seriously make a claim such as that.
Over the course of nineteen years, I encountered MANY Saudis (and other Muslims) who solemnly assured me that such things as traffic accidents were SOLELY a matter of "inshallah." that the drivers' behavior was irrelevant.

Are you going to tell me that you never encountered such people?

How long were you there?

Regards.
John
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isabel



Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dear 007, I am not in hell any longer, I am southeast of hell- to be specific- in Oman. I guess I was reprieved.
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
johnslat wrote:
Dear 007,

Seriously - I cannot believe that you can seriously make a claim such as that.
Over the course of nineteen years, I encountered MANY Saudis (and other Muslims) who solemnly assured me that such things as traffic accidents were SOLELY a matter of "inshallah." that the drivers' behavior was irrelevant.

Well, I do not share the view of the above mentioned Saudis or other Muslims, the interpretation of "Inshallah" is not an easy topic and cannot be taken from ordinary people. As I said before, it is the behaviour and the ignorance of the traffic laws whic are the main causes of road deaths.
If somebody wants to swim in a sea but does not know how to swim properly then consequently he will drown, can we say that it is because of "inshallah"? Of course, some ignorants may explain this as a result of fatalism, but I do not think is the case.


Quote:
How long were you there?

Many years.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dear 007,

But of course, we are not talking about YOU; I'm quite sure that you don't share their fatalism.
What i was vigorously disputing was THIS:

"Statistically and socially speaking, fatalism and pre-determination have nothing to do with the road deaths in the Gulf."

And that, I have to say, based on my experience, is TOTALLY wrong.

Regards,
John
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isabel



Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
johnslat wrote:
Dear 007,

But of course, we are not talking about YOU; I'm quite sure that you don't share their fatalism.
What i was vigorously disputing was THIS:

"Statistically and socially speaking, fatalism and pre-determination have nothing to do with the road deaths in the Gulf."

And that, I have to say, based on my experience, is TOTALLY wrong.

Regards,
John


Yes, I agree.
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
johnslat wrote:
Dear 007,

But of course, we are not talking about YOU; I'm quite sure that you don't share their fatalism.
What i was vigorously disputing was THIS:

"Statistically and socially speaking, fatalism and pre-determination have nothing to do with the road deaths in the Gulf."

And that, I have to say, based on my experience, is TOTALLY wrong.

Regards,
John

Well, John, I think I prefer to believe the statistics of the WHO and other researchs of international journals of Transportation Studies rather than the �experience �of an English teacher in the Magic Kingdom.

�Careless driving is identified as the most important factor in Road traffic accidents over the period of study, accounting for over 35% of all incidents, while excessive speed was the second most common cause. The findings are discussed in regard to the necessity of changing behaviour of drivers through media campaigns and health education. It is hoped that the findings of this study may assist decision makers and international consultants in the formulation of policies and the
development of alternative plans to improve urban transportation system in the UAE�

�The major causes of RTAs during 2000 are detailed in Table 3. The largest single cause of an accident was classed as careless driving, contributing more than 36.5% of all casualties and fatalities in RTAs. Excessive speed took the second rank in all incidents accounting for 16.% of casualties and 27% of fatalities. Together these two causes accounted for over 62% of all road traffic fatalities in UAE in 2000.�
http://www.salimandsalimah.org/documents/RTAsinUAEcompared.pdf

Other statistics from the Department of Neurosciences, Riyadh Armed Forces Hospital, Saudi Arabia:
�Over 65% of accidents occur because of vehicles travelling at excess speed and/or drivers disobeying traffic signals. Of deaths in Ministry of Health hospitals, 81% are due to road traffic accidents and 20% of their beds are occupied by traffic accidents victims. Also, 79.2% of patients admitted to Riyadh Armed Forces Hospital with spinal injuries has sustained their injuries as a result of a motor vehicle accident. We recommend compulsory use of safety seat belts in vehicles and the setting up of a new database to collect, store and analyse information relating to the road traffic accidents.�
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10787024

�Police say reckless driving is the cause of about 60 percent of accidents in the country, while speeding through a red light causes 34 percent of accidents." Arab News.
http://www.chezchiara.com/2010/05/saudi-arabia-takes-gold-in-mvas-rtas.html

Do you think careless driving and excessive speed have something to do with fatalism in roads deaths?

Are you going to believe a Saudi young man, driving a GMC Suburban in the middle of the night, with high speed, not putting his seat belt, with no lights, and causing the passenger with him to die, pretending that the cause of his accident is related to fatalism?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dear 007,

Mama mia - how you can miss the point! First of all do you really think the WHO people (or any other statistic-keeping organization) is going to factor in "the inshallah mentality?"

But even more importantly, WHAT do you think might be at least partially responsible for those MAJOR causes of traffic accidents: careless driving and excessive speed, not to mention not using safety belts?

Gee, do you suppose that possibly, just possibly, it might be this sort of attitude:

"It doesn't MATTER how carelessly or how fast I drive or whether I wear a safety belt or not BECAUSE IT'S ALL INSHALLAH. If Allah wills that I'm going to have an accident, it's going to happen, NO MATTER what I do or how I drive."

And if you don't think that there are a fair number of drivers in the Kingdom who feel that way, then you were in a different Saudi Arabia than I was.

Regards,
John
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Geronimo



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 498