|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
sarahuk
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 5
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: New to teaching with no degree! |
 |
|
Hi there, I'm a 37 years old lady from the UK. I am interested in tefl abroad but I have no teaching experience or degree. I have seen a CELTA course here in the Uk, that is 4 weeks full time that I may be interested in doing or I may be interested in going abroad and doing a course elsewhere. I don't want to spend so much money on a course though and then not be able to get a job. Can anyone give me any advice please. Many Thanks. Sarah
Last edited by sarahuk on Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: Re: New to teaching with no degree! |
|
|
| sarahuk wrote: |
| Hi thre, I'm a 37 years old lady from the UK. I am interested in tefl abroad but I have no teaching experience or degree. I have seen a CELTA course here in the Uk, that is 4 weeks full time that i may be interested in doing or I may be interested in going abroad and doing a course elsewhere. I don't want to spend so much money on a course though and then not be able to get a job. Can anyone give me any advice. Many Thanks. Sarah |
Will you be able to find work (after you get a CELTA or other TEFL certification) = yes.
Will you find a good paying job (without the degree) = Probably not.
(Most places that offer decent salaries also require you to have a minimum of a bachelors degree to get the work visa).
That leaves the option of working (legally) in places that don't pay very well (on average about 600 quid per month). You can live on it comfortably in their local economy but you won't be saving much and certainly won't be paying off any bills from home.
As a UK passport holder you have least have the option of looking for work in the EU but with the crashed economy in the UK you are competing against all the recent university grads for the same positions. Won't be easy.
The last option is to work illegally (without visa and/or work permits). It is do-able but, depending on the country involved, there is also some risk (including fines, detention and deportation) if you are caught.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sarahuk
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hi, I don't really fancy working illegally and having to watch over my shoulder all the time. I should be able to live on a local wage so to speak as I won't have any bills to pay at home. What's the best way of finding a legal job? Thanks for any advice. Sarah |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sarahuk wrote: |
| What's the best way of finding a legal job? Thanks for any advice. |
Get a degree. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi, I don't really fancy working illegally and having to watch over my shoulder all the time. I should be able to live on a local wage so to speak as I won't have any bills to pay at home. What's the best way of finding a legal job? Thanks for any advice. Sarah
Ok, yes, ultimately to make ESL a career you would need a degree. However, to live abroad for a few years and make enough to get by, it's not necessary. A degree is not a legal requirement for most of the EU member countries. As a British citizen, you can work legally in the region, as you know.
The problem with this region is that it's a fairly saturated job market, allowing employers to pick and choose to a high degree. Most newbies on this market do have a degree, so your previous experience, professional appearance and attitude, and reliability (37 is perceived as less likely to go on a binge and miss class) will be needed - and appreciated by employer and students!
Certification is very important in a situation such as yours - do whatever you can to get the name-brand CELTA to maximise your chances. Again, most newbies on this market have this or an equivalent, and anything less will again put you at a disadvantage.
Consider getting your cert in the country where you want to start. There are quite a few advantages: your practice teaching students will be really representative of those you'll be working with. A training centre also provides a nice bridge into a country/culture. They usually arrange for your housing during the course, airport pickup, local orientation, and can put you in touch with reputable local employers. Your fellow trainees can form the beginning of a social network as well.
The cert courses are intensive and challenging, but necessary to get a foot in the door in the European market.
Wages are subsistence level in the region. Picture being able to eat out a bit, enjoy local culture and events, travel in-country on the weekends. Buying a pair of jeans may require some planning - saving up for something bigger a real challenge.
Overall, with a proper cert, I think you are a good candidate for newbie level positions in Europe. I think some of the earlier posters on the thread are quite Asia-oriented, where the lack of a degree poses legal barriers. Consider other regions - South America may also be an option. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sarahuk
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks for your helpful advice. I just need to decide now where I want start. Mexico seems to have good reviews! Thanks. Sarah |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| What is it with these people who presume to think they can become teachers without having at least a bachelor's degree? Do they think so little of the teaching profession? Or is it that they come here to insult real teachers by treating TEFL as if it isn't real teaching and that it's still just a bunch of backpackers roaming the world? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sarahuk
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Chancellor, I'm a 37 year old lady who is asking for advice. Get off your high horse and lighten up. You only live once, so why shouldn't I try something new, succeed and enjoy it?? which I know I will.
You know nothing about me, who I am or what I have achieved in my life, so please keep your useless opinions to yourself!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sarah, I have worked in China without a degree, in UK summer schools without a degree, and have just accepted a job in the EU for a company who stated 'degree not required, but preferred'. It can be done.
However, as already suggested, it is going to be much harder for you, and if you have any long term plans in EFL the degree is going to be a 'must have' really. You will be automatically excluded from so many jobs and countries without it.
Doing a CELTA or similar is a must though really IMO. I dont employ people so perhaps my opinion is worthless, but I feel someone who has spent the money and taken a recognised course shows a lot more commitment to EFL than someone who has an unrelated degree which they took many years ago to pursue a different career or interest. So I guess I disagree with Chancellors post further up this thread. Degree holders who dont invest in further training or specific EFL training could arguably be worse for the industry IMO.
Anyway...despite saying that...I did recognise my own limited employment opportunities without a degree and decided to study via distance learning with the OU and completed my BA last year. Part of this I did in China, and part I did alongside summer school work. I would recommend looking at the OU website and the funding options, and consider any courses that may interest you. Its really worth doing IMO, and the finding options may make it easier than you think. I wish I had taken mine years ago, and they the options I have now would have been available much earlier. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sarahuk wrote: |
| Chancellor, I'm a 37 year old lady who is asking for advice. Get off your high horse and lighten up. You only live once, so why shouldn't I try something new, succeed and enjoy it?? which I know I will. |
Sara,
You really shouldn't respond like that. You are the one who knows nothing about people here (including Chancellor). Try to see the point of view he wrote. Others have done so less bluntly, by telling you to get a degree. Those should be hints or red flags.
| Quote: |
| You know nothing about me, who I am or what I have achieved in my life, so please keep your useless opinions to yourself!! |
Hey, you are the one who came here and asked! If you can't take a few blunt but polite comments on an anonymous discussion forum, how are you going to take life in the real TEFL world? It's a real dog-eat-dog world.
BTW,
There are many who come to sites like the Cafe and have little to no qualifications to get a job or work visa. They irk the regulars and veterans with their attitudes of "I'll do this or die, and you can't dissuade me!" Be careful not to fall into that category because it gets messy.
So, you have seen a CELTA and expect to get work teaching. Uh, ok. Can we assume you have zero teaching experience, therefore you will really start at Square One, or do you have anything (tutoring, volunteering, etc.) to put on a resume for those few countries that don't care about the quality of teaching? (Yes, that last bit was a bit rough, but as Chancellor pointed out, there are plenty of us out there who are serious enough about teaching to get educated/trained for it. Your post could go either way; that is, you might actually be serious, or you might just want to get in on the ground floor with minimal qualifications just to travel and see the world instead of actually educate people.)
Yes, people do ESL/EFL to travel, but if that's their primary reason, then you should expect at least a little flak like that from Chancellor. Again, see it from the professional's POV.
| Quote: |
| You only live once, so why shouldn't I try something new, succeed and enjoy it?? |
Actually, some of us live more than once. No joke. Some of us have actually changed professions and gotten into teaching later in life (me later than you, for example). Nobody is saying you shouldn't get into TEFL/TESL. Some here just wince at the way it is portrayed by some. IMO, the jury is still out on your portrayal, so how about helping us to understand why you want to get into teaching, what you've done in the past, how long you think you might teach, and where you would like to go? With more info, we might all steer you more accurately. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sarahuk wrote: |
Chancellor, I'm a 37 year old lady who is asking for advice. Get off your high horse and lighten up. You only live once, so why shouldn't I try something new, succeed and enjoy it?? which I know I will.
You know nothing about me, who I am or what I have achieved in my life, so please keep your useless opinions to yourself!! |
At the risk of being brutal, teaching a language is serious business - it isn't something to "try" like trying a new dish at a restaurant. To think you can just fly off somewhere and presume to teach people what is, for them, a foreign language, without having any kind of training in language instruction, demeans the teaching profession and is both a condescension and a grave disservice to the people unfortunate enough to have you as their teacher.
Now, if you're serious about becoming a language teacher, you'll go get the proper qualifications. Many countries (and, it seems, more and more of them) require you to have a bachelor's degree just to get a work visa. However, if you aren't really serious about this, then just go do one of those volunteer trips through an organization like i-to-i (http://www.i-to-i.com/). Then, if you find out that this is something you might want to start taking seriously, go get your degree (which is mainly for getting a work visa but, if it's in TESL or applied linguistics, it puts you in a better position for getting better-paying jobs) and go get a proper TEFL certification (the minimum industry standard for entry-level certification is 100-120 course hours and at least six hours of supervised teaching practice with real ESL/EFL students). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chancellor wrote: |
| At the risk of being brutal, teaching a language is serious business - it isn't something to "try" like trying a new dish at a restaurant. To think you can just fly off somewhere and presume to teach people what is, for them, a foreign language, without having any kind of training in language instruction, demeans the teaching profession and is both a condescension and a grave disservice to the people unfortunate enough to have you as their teacher. |
I agree with you, Chancellor, but have you taught abroad? I ask because your avatar says U.S. In many countries, the conversation school trade is not as serious about who they hire as teachers. A non-teaching degree and a passport from a native English speaking country suffices. Moreover, the idea of what professional means is pretty confusing, as the following article shows.
http://www.eltnews.com/features/special/2004/01/the_power_of_perceptions_a_loo.html
Backpacking through the world to teach and travel still exists. You and I may not like it, but it's there. I don't know what the situation is like in the U.S. anymore; when I started out with my TESL training, half the class were preparing to go abroad and the other half remained in the U.S. where all they could find was PT work, but at least that half seemed like serious dedicated teacher types. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chancellor wrote: |
| What is it with these people who presume to think they can become teachers without having at least a bachelor's degree? Do they think so little of the teaching profession? Or is it that they come here to insult real teachers by treating TEFL as if it isn't real teaching and that it's still just a bunch of backpackers roaming the world? |
Well, *I* have a degree in Education, but most of the courses don't teach you how to teach. History of Education, Philosophy of Education, all kinds of theory, with very little practical instruction on HOW to teach. You know when I learned to teach? When I was student teaching. And very little of what I learned in college helped. What helped the most was having access to wonderful teacher's manuals! Some people just have a knack for teaching, a natural talent, and some people, no matter how much education they get are mediocre teachers, at best. Last, but not least, the classroom is not the only place you can learn! I think most people can learn very well on their own from books and perhaps some volunteer teaching. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TeresaLopez wrote: |
| Well, *I* have a degree in Education, but most of the courses don't teach you how to teach. History of Education, Philosophy of Education, all kinds of theory, with very little practical instruction on HOW to teach. You know when I learned to teach? When I was student teaching. And very little of what I learned in college helped. |
All things being equal, though, Teresa, I'd still take someone with the theory behind them than someone who doesn't. At least you have a better grounding in the theory that is so important.
I don't have such a grounding and have been learning it on my own for the past 12 years.
| Quote: |
| What helped the most was having access to wonderful teacher's manuals! |
Yes, but only the wonderful ones. There are plenty that suck. And, just because the manual is good, that doesn't mean the student's book is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenski wrote: |
| Chancellor wrote: |
| At the risk of being brutal, teaching a language is serious business - it isn't something to "try" like trying a new dish at a restaurant. To think you can just fly off somewhere and presume to teach people what is, for them, a foreign language, without having any kind of training in language instruction, demeans the teaching profession and is both a condescension and a grave disservice to the people unfortunate enough to have you as their teacher. |
I agree with you, Chancellor, but have you taught abroad? I ask because your avatar says U.S. |
I spent some time at a private IBO-candidate school in Indonesia.
| Quote: |
In many countries, the conversation school trade is not as serious about who they hire as teachers. A non-teaching degree and a passport from a native English speaking country suffices. Moreover, the idea of what professional means is pretty confusing, as the following article shows.
http://www.eltnews.com/features/special/2004/01/the_power_of_perceptions_a_loo.html
Backpacking through the world to teach and travel still exists. You and I may not like it, but it's there. I don't know what the situation is like in the U.S. anymore; when I started out with my TESL training, half the class were preparing to go abroad and the other half remained in the U.S. where all they could find was PT work, but at least that half seemed like serious dedicated teacher types. |
However, the profession is changing and becoming more professional and while some backpacking is still possible, would you want to learn a language from some mere backpacker? (And, as I've said elsewhere, the degree is more for getting the work visa). People in these various countries are learning that they can expect more from the schools they give their business to and, in the end, it's going to come down to what the customer wants. Also, governments more and more appear to be tightening the rules about who can come into their respective countries and presume to teach their citizens. That backpacking still exists doesn�t change my position that it �demeans the teaching profession and is both a condescension and a grave disservice to the people unfortunate enough to have you as their teacher.�
As for the U. S., it seems a great many of the TESL jobs are in the community colleges and universities and geared toward students from abroad. There are some private language schools, particularly in the largest cities, but, as you indicated, it generally tends to be part-time work. We have a private organization here where I live that provides ESL classes and they require their teachers (who work part-time) to have a college certificate in adult education.
Last edited by Chancellor on Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
