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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:38 am Post subject: After you do the runner.... |
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Here's the scenario:
A teacher takes a job, contract is signed, got the FEC and the RP, everything. Said teacher does a runner, goes to Hong Kong, applies for other jobs in China. If the teacher gets a job, what will happen when they see the RP in the passport? Even if they don't cross-reference all the other stuff (FEC, walked off the job, etc.), the RP is still stuck in the booklet. |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:03 am Post subject: Re: After you do the runner.... |
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| johntpartee wrote: |
Here's the scenario:
A teacher takes a job, contract is signed, got the FEC and the RP, everything. Said teacher does a runner, goes to Hong Kong, applies for other jobs in China. If the teacher gets a job, what will happen when they see the RP in the passport? Even if they don't cross-reference all the other stuff (FEC, walked off the job, etc.), the RP is still stuck in the booklet. |
Correct, which is why it presents quite a problem when the inevitable paperwork is done, and the new company takes you through the standard medical check, PSB visit, etc.. Then the policeman looks at the passport, sees a current RP in there which hasn't been canceled, and asks why. At that point, you and the secretary have some explaining to do.
This scenario happened to me last year (Sept 09) because the RP from my former job ended on Sept 15 / 09, and the contract finished June 30. So the former RP wasn't canceled, even though it should have been when the new company applied for a Z-visa back in Canada during the month of August.
But the paperwork was clear that this new Z-visa was issued offshore, whereas the former RP was issued in Jiangsu province. I was applying for a new RP in Hubei province, so the policeman figured it out and issued the new RP. However, I had copies of release letters and other documents from my former school to show him, just in case there was a problem.
I would highly discourage doing a runner, in fact I've always been against this practice -- but if you should find yourself in this situation described then the paperwork scenario will surely bite you later on. So the only two options I can think of are:
1) Wait until the RP expires before seeking new work
2) Use a different passport to apply for new work |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you, that's pretty much what I thought. Nobody ever WANTS to do a runner, but then again, if a situation is intolerable, sometimes it's the only way. |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| johntpartee wrote: |
| Thank you, that's pretty much what I thought. Nobody ever WANTS to do a runner, but then again, if a situation is intolerable, sometimes it's the only way. |
Right, but I would always leave that as total last resort situation, and consider the consequences of what happens after the runner -- which is apparent from your post.
I covered my bases last year with a school in the boonies of Jiangsu province, but close enough to the Shanghai municipal border. The opportunity allowed me to set up a 2nd apartment in the city center, mainly for weekend 'getaways' and the occasional visit during the week when things got too crazy out in the sticks. It's also where I stored perhaps 90% of my personal stuff and luggage, except the most valuable stuff and immediate things I needed for work -- in my 1st apartment.
Things got dicey at the school many times and there were problems, so the *potential* running plan would have been very simple. Just pack up the remaining 10% of my stuff and make a beeline to the city center. I could do this in less than 2 hours flat, and even drilled it one weekend.
A runner to another province (which in this case it was) has more or less the same effect as going to HK, as the inter-provincial communication is very poor in China. But thankfully it never came to this, as all the problems at my former school were solved through negotiations and patience. However, not having this option could have driven me over the edge to be in a stuck situation, and my response would have been worse --- so this 'escape hatch' served a purpose.
If it ever came down to this, I'd suggest a similar tactic -- beeline to another province, and then regroup. Rent another apartment, do private lessons or odd jobs, take a breather, study Chinese, or whatever you need to do immediately. Obviously, having a cushion of savings would be necessary, while you come up with a plan for what to do next, based on the available realities and opportunities.
For example, if your passport is up for renewal soon, you might be able to get a new passport and start fresh again. Anyways, just throwing out some ideas. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: |
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John I can remember something you told us in another post -
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| if things are too bad at a place, I tell them to fix it or I walk. |
Since I take it that walking = runner - then I suppose you haven't really got that much leverage when it comes to fixing a problem with a Chinese employer.
If you meet a problem, want to both stay in China and carry on working as FT when leaving employment before the end of a contract period - with the way visa regs are now working - those bosses seem to be holding nearly all the cards!!!!
A real warning to anybody wanting to get into this job - don't even think of coming until you get contact with FT's who have real experience at your new job location - and never believe all you hear from employer or recruiter!!!!!! |
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hot_water_hillbilly
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Pull a runner
Violate/break the contract
Go on the lamb to another locale
Attempt to defraud a new jurisdiction
Do odd jobs
Do private lessons
Premeditation
Just stacking up those illegalities? Those so willing to violate the laws in one country make me suspect of why people left their home country and so desperate to stay in China. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:25 am Post subject: |
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What I'm referring to when I call a situation "intolerable" is that the school has, in essence, violated the contract; i.e., late pay, unsatisfactory working and/or living conditions, etc. Since foreign teachers have essentially zero rights here, sometimes our only recourse is to leave. As far as "desperate to stay in China", that is just one of many options that one can consider. Since we're already on this side of the world, on the ground, able to assess a potential workplace in the flesh, that would be a wise move, in my opinion. No one ever said anything about trying to defraud anyone, I'm a staunch advocate of "coming clean" to any employer about what was wrong at any place that I ever worked. I'm basically asking if I would be precluded from working in China by the conflicting FEC and RP. If I am, so be it. I'll go somewhere else.
Last edited by johntpartee on Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| hot_water_hillbilly wrote: |
Pull a runner
Violate/break the contract
Go on the lamb to another locale
Attempt to defraud a new jurisdiction
Do odd jobs
Do private lessons
Premeditation
Just stacking up those illegalities? Those so willing to violate the laws in one country make me suspect of why people left their home country and so desperate to stay in China. |
First of all, only several items on that list are illegal. Breaking a contract and then working odd jobs in a new locale, ok yes, I'll admit that. Besides, you'll notice in my posts I never recommended doing a runner or any of the above.
But there are desperate times when a FT is put into a pinch by the employer breaking some law or part of the contract first. In which case, running is a total last resort.
This is a lawless land where the rules are applied arbitrarily. In a wild-west kind of teaching environment like this, the FT has to cover his bases by at least having some kind of 'out' if things get real bad. Call that premeditation if you want, I'll call it planning ahead.
Here's what I would suggest as a list of options in which to pursue should the working relationship turn sour and things are spiralling downward in an employment contract. Maybe the empoyer has already broken part of the contract.
1) Try to resolve the situation through negotiations
2) Be patient and flexible, offer alternatives
3) Pull a bluff or threaten to leave, this is a classic Chinese bargaining tactic, but for it to work you need to be willing to go through with it.
4) Attempt to quit the job through proper channels
5) Act on the the running plan
Once again, just to clarify, running is a total last resort situation. I've never had to run, and I would not recommend this in the least.
But just in case desperate times call for desperate measures, knowing how to do a run is better than totally being stuck and in a helpless situation. Playing by the rules is great if it means the contract relationship works out, but if it doesn't, the FT will be left otherwise powerless. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Struelle, AS YOU WELL KNOW, the FAO can subvert all of one's plans and cancel the teacher's contract, usually with impunity.
At least, that's the case in Jiangsu, isn't it? |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Miles Smiles wrote: |
Struelle, AS YOU WELL KNOW, the FAO can subvert all of one's plans and cancel the teacher's contract, usually with impunity.
At least, that's the case in Jiangsu, isn't it? |
Sure they can, and it happened to my colleagues. I got nervous a few times with my contract, but all the problems were sorted out. Nonetheless, it was common knowledge that if the FAO did such a thing, we could cross the provincial border (in this case to Shanghai) and in effect start over.
So while going to my weekend apartment every Fri afternoon, it was both neat and strange at the the same time to think that if I really wanted to, I could just stay there and not return on Monday for my work -- there wouldn't be much they could do. But as I've said, that never happened. |
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