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Certification question

 
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vcarter706



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:37 am    Post subject: Certification question Reply with quote

I'm sorry if this question gets asked 100 times a day... but a quick search didn't bring up anything that helped me.

I'm currently entering my last year of studies and I really want to spend one or two years abroad as a teacher. I think it would be a great experience, and one that would be very beneficial to me. On one hand, I'm very serious about wanting to teach (I don't want to give the impression that I want an easy way to live abroad for a year), but on the other hand I only plan on this being a one or two year experience for me.

As of right now I don't have any certificates, however after receiving my bachelor's degree next June I would be able to enroll in some sort of program. The only problem is that I'm not sure which program to do. I've found a multitude of online, mixed, or classroom programs that hand out varying degrees but it seems impossible to discern which ones are legitimate and thus could help me get the position I want. I'd love to do the CELTA program, but it just seemed far too expensive for a 21 year old university student.

Anyway, I'm wondering what sort of program I should use to make myself competitive. I'd prefer something that is mostly online, but alas I'd rather have a good certificate that is in-class rather than a useless online one. I guess it's also important for me to note that my goal is to teach in Eastern Europe. I read on a website (for Hungary) that as long as I have 100 hours of instruction and 20 hours of teaching experience I'll be fine... but I'm not sure if that's true for other countries in the region.

I'm willing to clarify if anything is unclear. Thanks for the assistance!
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vcarter706



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also: If I decided to take a CELTA course in a country that I'd like to work in... would I have a good chance of getting a job? The last thing I want is to pay $1000+ for a program, fly to Europe, and then find myself without any work. That's why I'd prefer to stay in the US and do a program online...
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found a multitude of online, mixed, or classroom programs that hand out varying degrees but it seems impossible to discern which ones are legitimate and thus could help me get the position I want. I'd love to do the CELTA program, but it just seemed far too expensive for a 21 year old university student.

For the Central/Eastern European region, barring volunteer work (see the Georgia forum for current volunteer opps), a CELTA or equivalent is the standard - the thing is that most newbies on this job market will have a BA and a CELTA or equivalent.

Therefore, any online or short cert will put you at an automatic disadvantage on the job market. Keep in mind that the market is tight - there are lots of teachers around in most cities, and as an American, you pose more difficulties than a UK teacher in terms of paperwork for a potential employer already (teachers from the UK are automatically legal to work inside the EU - Americans must go through a pretty extensive legal process to get a visa. Read country-specific forums for more info on this).

CELTA and other standard-level newbie courses are 120 hours on-site and include supervised teaching practice with real students, with feedback from experienced teacher trainers. This key component obviously is missing from on-line courses, and reputable employers are aware of this. It's not just 'teaching experience'- it's supervised, and with feedback on how you've done.

There are lots of very good reasons to take a course in the country where you want to start working, if at all possible.

Training in-country offers you a great chance to get your feet wet in the country/culture while you still have a support system � they usually arrange for your housing during the course, airport pickup, and local orientation. Your practice teaching students will really be representative of those you�ll be working with when you start. You can be sure that your certification will be recognized by local employers, and a training centre can give you invaluable contacts and advice regarding reputable local employers.

This is usually a better bridge into local employment than coming with a cert already (which may not be recognised here) and trying to find a job with no local contacts.

Also, as you've mentioned finances several times, keep in mind that you are facing significant up-front costs when considering teaching in the Euro region. Schools generally do NOT hire from abroad (there are simply enough teachers walking through their doors so that they don't need to take the risk of hiring someone sight-unseen).

I do not mean to be discouraging - obviously this can be done successfully! But you will need to plan to be sure you have enough funds to get you started, and to be sure you invest in a cert course that is actually going to help you make the experience work.

You will need to plan to pay for your travel to the country, your rent/food/etc for at least a couple of months before you get your first paycheck, and for a certification course. You should also always have enough financial cushion to get yourself home in case of any problems - a little bad luck can go a long way in a foreign country.
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DoubleDutch



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 51
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiral's giving some very good advice here. Also, there are language schools that will train you and will repay you (part of) the course fees when they hire you, or on completion of a one-year contract. Check out http://www.ihworld.com/ for example.
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vcarter706



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks both of you! I'm really serious about teaching somewhere in Europe, and I'm more than willing to pay a bit of upfront costs for this. I guess I just want some assurance that I'm not going to spend somewhere around $2500 and come home empty handed. I want to be certain that I can come home without having lost any money from this experience. I'll be perfectly happy to break even as the experience itself will make up for it.

Also, I actually hold French and American citizenship, so perhaps that'll help even the playing field against British citizens.

I'll do some research about a CELTA program in a country of interest, and hopefully it goes well. Thanks!
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having French citizenship makes things worlds easier for you.

I think that planning to take a CELTA somewhere you want to work will be the best/easiest way to get started. Keep in mind that most contracts are Sept - June - it's already quite late to get on an August cert course!

The next normal hiring time is January - some companies get new contracts that start at the first of the year, and there are always a few teachers who don't return after their winter holidays.
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vcarter706



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
Having French citizenship makes things worlds easier for you.

I think that planning to take a CELTA somewhere you want to work will be the best/easiest way to get started. Keep in mind that most contracts are Sept - June - it's already quite late to get on an August cert course!

The next normal hiring time is January - some companies get new contracts that start at the first of the year, and there are always a few teachers who don't return after their winter holidays.


Well this is all for the future, as I'm not graduating until June 2011.

I guess I now know what I need to do... Luckily I'm going to France and Hungary in October, so I can perhaps meet with a few schools and find out more information firsthand. I'm just extremely nervous about flying to a country and spending a few thousand dollars without a guarantee. I'd prefer to take a CELTA course in the US, but it's more expensive and doesn't help me get a job in Europe as I'd still be in the states.

Spiral78, do you know a good place to search for CELTA programs in Europe? I did a Google search, but I really don't want to stumble upon a sketchy site and give so much money to something that's not great...
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CELTA is the brand name and the exact location won't matter. Prague is something of a hotbed of teacher training centres. You might start a search there.
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AGoodStory



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
. . . do you know a good place to search for CELTA programs in Europe? I did a Google search, but I really don't want to stumble upon a sketchy site and give so much money to something that's not great...


Visit the University of Cambridge website (www.cambridgeesol.org.) You can search for CELTA locations on the "Teaching Awards" page. This will give you a list of every provider authorized by the University of Cambridge to offer a CELTA course. Then you can scroll down the worldwide list and take a look at the courses offered in the countries you are interested in.

http://cambridgeesol-centres.org/centres/teaching/search.do?source=teacheraward&country=ALL&qualification=10&Input=Search

While it has its quirks and flaws, the Cactus website--www.cactustefl.com--will also allow you to search for CELTA courses, or other varieties of TEFL courses. Although it is not as accurate or as up-to-date as the Cambridge site, it has the advantage of displaying the price of each course to the right of the listing. This allows you to scroll down a list of CELTA courses quickly to compare the course costs. (I found this feature really useful!) You will have to go back to the Cambridge website, however, to get the contact information for the centres you are interested in. Then you can contact each course provider who interests you, and through the back and forth of communicating with them about their course, you will get a feel for which ones may be a good fit for you.

http://www.cactustefl.com/tefl/search.php?destination=@&filter=certificate_received@cambridge+celta&course_dates=&currency=GBP&Submit=Search
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Chancellor



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Certification question Reply with quote

vcarter706 wrote:
I'm sorry if this question gets asked 100 times a day... but a quick search didn't bring up anything that helped me.
Then maybe you shouldn't have stopped at a quick search.

Quote:
I'm currently entering my last year of studies and I really want to spend one or two years abroad as a teacher. I think it would be a great experience, and one that would be very beneficial to me. On one hand, I'm very serious about wanting to teach (I don't want to give the impression that I want an easy way to live abroad for a year), but on the other hand I only plan on this being a one or two year experience for me.
So, how exactly is it that you're "very serious" about wanting to teach when you've admitted that it's just something you want to try out for a year or two? Sorry, but by admitting you only want to try this out for a couple of years tells me you're just looking for an easy way to live abroad for that short period of time and aren't interested in teaching for its own sake.

Quote:
As of right now I don't have any certificates, however after receiving my bachelor's degree next June I would be able to enroll in some sort of program. The only problem is that I'm not sure which program to do. I've found a multitude of online, mixed, or classroom programs that hand out varying degrees but it seems impossible to discern which ones are legitimate and thus could help me get the position I want. I'd love to do the CELTA program, but it just seemed far too expensive for a 21 year old university student.
The industry minimum standard for an entry-level certification is 100-120 course hours and at least six hours of supervised teaching practice with real ESL/EFL students. If a course doesn't provide you with that (Oxford Seminars and i-to-i definitely do not provide it and are, therefore, considered sub-standard) then don't take that course. CELTA, Trinity and SIT are brand names (some people, including many employers - European ones in particular, are just enamored with brand names; some here at Dave's have gone as far as to say that if you don't get CELTA or Trinity then you don't have a real certification) but there are other courses that meet the industry standard. And, again, we're talking about mere entry-level training here.

Quote:
Anyway, I'm wondering what sort of program I should use to make myself competitive. I'd prefer something that is mostly online, but alas I'd rather have a good certificate that is in-class rather than a useless online one. I guess it's also important for me to note that my goal is to teach in Eastern Europe. I read on a website (for Hungary) that as long as I have 100 hours of instruction and 20 hours of teaching experience I'll be fine... but I'm not sure if that's true for other countries in the region.
If you can find a course that'll give you 20 hours of supervised teaching practice with real ESL/EFL students (not other teacher trainees), go for it! Some may disagree but the most important part of the training really is the supervised teaching practice and it's that practice that sets acceptable courses from unacceptable ones (and will likely tell you whether you're cut out for this kind of work).
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DoubleDutch



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 51
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One school to consider is the Boland School in the Czech Republic: http://www.boland-czech.com/
They are a well established school with a good name. Their International TEFL Diploma is equivalent to CELTA, and they offer a job guarantee to native speakers of English.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm familiar with Boland and agree it's a good equivalent to the brand name courses. There are some other well-established providers in Prague as well, whose generic certs are in fact equivalent to a CELTA.

The only drawback is that employers in other regions may not be familiar with the certs from these courses, and you may need to establish that your cert IS from a course with the supervised teaching practice component up front.

'Job guarantees' are a bit of a flag, though. Read fine print in all such cases! If Boland are offering to hire their own grads, that's fine.

However, such claims if applied to other schools normally really boil down to the course provider putting you in touch with reputable schools in the region - you are still responsible for the CV-interview-demo lesson-contract negotiation process. Nothing wrong with that, unless the cert provider has implied that you will simply be 'placed' without doing the legwork yourself!
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
I'm familiar with Boland and agree it's a good equivalent to the brand name courses. There are some other well-established providers in Prague as well, whose generic certs are in fact equivalent to a CELTA.

'Job guarantees' are a bit of a flag, though. Read fine print in all such cases! If Boland are offering to hire their own grads, that's fine.

However, such claims if applied to other schools normally really boil down to the course provider putting you in touch with reputable schools in the region - you are still responsible for the CV-interview-demo lesson-contract negotiation process. Nothing wrong with that, unless the cert provider has implied that you will simply be 'placed' without doing the legwork yourself!


They don't hire grads anymore, unless they have two years experience. If you're only looking to teach abroad for a year or two, you might be able to get away with not having a cert. Obviously, it's better to get one. But, let's be honest, not everyone has that kind of money. go to the lirbary, read up on TEFLing, observe teachers, do some volunteer teaching, talk to teachers, etc.

And yep, agreed, most job guarantees are just interview guarantees. After all, if you botch the interview, how can the TEFL course provider guarantee you a job?

I know that there are places in Asia, such as China and Korea, that will hire you without a cert. But if you're set on Europe, follow spiral's advice.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're only looking to teach abroad for a year or two, you might be able to get away with not having a cert. Obviously, it's better to get one. But, let's be honest, not everyone has that kind of money. go to the lirbary, read up on TEFLing, observe teachers, do some volunteer teaching, talk to teachers, etc.

The OP is focused on Europe, where a cert is very important, as the job market is saturated and most newbies have a CELTA or equivalent. A newbie candidate with no certification has few opps here.
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vcarter706



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
o, how exactly is it that you're "very serious" about wanting to teach when you've admitted that it's just something you want to try out for a year or two? Sorry, but by admitting you only want to try this out for a couple of years tells me you're just looking for an easy way to live abroad for that short period of time and aren't interested in teaching for its own sake.


I think that this is a misunderstanding of what I was trying to say. I just wanted to emphasize that I am not simply trying to find a cheap way to live in a foreign country. I don't plan on this being a career, but I will certainly take the job very seriously and that's why I'm trying to make sure I get the appropriate certification. I'm not looking for the bare minimum when it comes to a program. I'll admit, I love the idea of living abroad for a few years after my studies, but I'm sure that many people who teach english abroad have this as one of their motivations as well. However I want to do a good job, I want to be a good teacher, and I want to have my two years there be a good experience for not just me but for everyone involved.

Quote:
The industry minimum standard for an entry-level certification is 100-120 course hours and at least six hours of supervised teaching practice with real ESL/EFL students. If a course doesn't provide you with that (Oxford Seminars and i-to-i definitely do not provide it and are, therefore, considered sub-standard) then don't take that course. CELTA, Trinity and SIT are brand names (some people, including many employers - European ones in particular, are just enamored with brand names; some here at Dave's have gone as far as to say that if you don't get CELTA or Trinity then you don't have a real certification) but there are other courses that meet the industry standard. And, again, we're talking about mere entry-level training here.


This is great, thanks! I posted on this site because I noticed that while the board kept stressing the importance of CELTA, some placement programs (specifically in Hungary) stated that only an online program like i-to-i would suffice. It seemed really nice, but I didn't want to limit myself to one or two programs. While I'm starting to see that accepting the high price of CELTA is completely worth it, it's nice to have this list of the minimum so that I can make sure not to get a useless cert if I choose otherwise.

Quote:
I know that there are places in Asia, such as China and Korea, that will hire you without a cert. But if you're set on Europe, follow spiral's advice.


I've looked into Asia, and I'm going to apply for a few positions in Korea and Japan. However if I had a preference I would choose Europe and so that's why I'm trying to get a good cert. I'd rather get the cert and have a chance to work in Europe AND Asia rather than just the latter.

Thanks for everything, everyone! It's going to be a difficult decision when it comes down to it, but I've already begun looking into a CELTA program in Budapest and it seems to be a much safer investment than I originally imaged.
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