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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: "To standard" |
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Just finished my CELTA course today. It was a good course, I'm really glad I did it, but I have one complaint:
No matter how good my lessons were, they were always "to standard".
I had fellow trainees and even students telling me how much they enjoyed my lessons, and how interesting I made the subject (even grammar :S) but I just couldn't seem to tick all those boxes. At the same time however, some other trainees' lessons which were clearly boring and hum-drum got "above standard", which at times even shocked the people who had given them as they had known they'd given a rubbish lesson.
I took on board my tutor's advice after every feedback session, and improved on the areas I'd been lacking in, I always achieved the aim of my lesson, the students were always able to use the target language at the end, so what did I do wrong?
Has anyone had similar experiences? |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Congrats on finishing the course...I wouldnt worry about the 'to standard' comments really. The people to ask would have been the course tutors really.....but generally....just take the cert and concentrate more on the next steps rather than worrying too much about the course. Pour your energy into the job search and the first real job. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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If I were you, I'd march back to my evaluator. look him/her up the nose and say, "What the heck do you mean by "To Standard"?
To me, it sounds like code for, "I would've liked to have failed ya if I could've, but I couldn't find a nail to hang my hat on."
Take that cert and all that it means to you and make some "standard" bucks...
CONGRATS! 
NCTBA |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I know, time to move on I suppose. I was going to ask my tutor in my final feedback session, but I was worried about leaving a bad impression with them, while they were deciding my final grade...
Any kind of disagreement with what was being dictated to us went down badly in the course, so best to not rock the boat perhaps  |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bulgogiboy wrote: |
Any kind of disagreement with what was being dictated to us went down badly in the course, so best to not rock the boat perhaps |
There's your answer, I'll bet. Your lessons weren't "up to [their] standard" because you occasionally dared to go against the dictates of the CELTA bible. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think there is anything wrong in asking your tutors what you would need to have done to get more than a 'to standard'. Not really rocking anyone's boat. I'd be surprised if you had to ask, though. Surely that would naturally be part of the tutor's feedback to you anyway? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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"To" standard? Since you wrote it twice, I have to assume it is not a typo.
"Too", not "to". |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
"To" standard? Since you wrote it twice, I have to assume it is not a typo.
"Too", not "to". |
Glenski, if you're an English teacher I hope you were drunk when you wrote that comment.
Do you really think Cambridge University would have a grade for lessons in their ESOL courses which was "too standard"?
I was referring to their grading system:
not to standard
to standard
above standard
If you can't figure that out, best to go back to your soju
Idiot. |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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I was a skimmer my whole academic life, so perhaps I'm not the person to give this advice (got a lot of 'to standards' in my CELTA): Don't worry about it.
I've never heard of an employer basing their hire on whether someone got a Pass A, B, etc on the prospect's one-month CELTA course.
Of course, I'm not saying it's not important to you, just my two cent.
Good luck!
P.S. I would like to take a bit to defend Glenski here. He obviously misunderstood the "to" thing, and while he perhaps could have been more tactful in his response, to call him an "idiot" is harsh; he adds a lot to this forum. Again, good luck! |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Besides, EVERYBODY knows that it's MAKGEOLLI that turns you into an idiot! ...  ...
NCTBA |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| bulgogiboy wrote: |
| I took on board my tutor's advice after every feedback session, and improved on the areas I'd been lacking in, I always achieved the aim of my lesson, the students were always able to use the target language at the end, so what did I do wrong? |
Have you asked your tutor? Perhaps all that was lacking was more creativity than... uh...standard. Who are you to rank someone's lesson as boring, by the way? That's not a snide remark but an honest question.
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If you can't figure that out, best to go back to your soju
Idiot. |
Let's lay off the juvenile name-calling. Sticks and stones... |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| bulgogiboy wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
"To" standard? Since you wrote it twice, I have to assume it is not a typo.
"Too", not "to". |
Glenski, if you're an English teacher I hope you were drunk when you wrote that comment.
Do you really think Cambridge University would have a grade for lessons in their ESOL courses which was "too standard"?
I was referring to their grading system:
not to standard
to standard
above standard
If you can't figure that out, best to go back to your soju
Idiot. |
It's the University of Cambridge. Not Cambridge University.
Do you think that the University of Cambridge uses 'not to standard', 'to standard' and 'above standard' as their grading system? That would be odd, because their post-graduate courses require things like 'Distinction' in prior studies for entrance.
Did you actually look up the CELTA to see its affiliation with the university? Its web site doesn't even link to the University of Cambridge's. The only thing linking the two together is the logo at the top left of the page. And when you click it, it returns you to the Cambridge ESOL (a company owned by the University of Cambidge)'s home page. It's not unlike a private language school that is owned by the university, but exists solely to increase profits. However, you will also read, "Cambridge ESOL is a not-for-profit department of the University of Cambridge. " which makes sense as soon as you understand that the term not-for-profit doesn't actually mean 'we don't want money'. It means that all of the money the organization makes is funnelled back into the organization after paying salaries and overhead. It does not exist to make a profits for the stakeholders, but to make money to continue its existence and build itself up. In this case, however, it exists to donate all of the money it earns, outside of its own operating costs, to the University of Cambridge, which then in turn decides how much to allocate it each of its departments (in this case probably just the one) and how much to allocate to itself. In other words, it exists for the university's profit, not the profit of 'Cambridge ESOL', and therefore is not-for-profit.
http://www.cambridgeesol.org/exams/teaching-awards/celta.html
If you go to the University of Cambridge, you can find the programs offered in language teacher education through the university itself in the faculty of education ( here ), and in the Research Centre for English and Applied Linguistics (which is, according to the University of Cambridge's website, 'independent of any department, but within the School of Arts and Humanities') (here).
That's not to say that CELTA and DELTA are useless. Some universities do give transfer credit for having a DELTA (see here) . This is because of the number of people in the UK and elsewhere who do a DELTA and then never go on to do a masters degree. Sadly, however, the University of Cambridge is not one of those universities. Nor does it mean that these courses won't supply you with the skills to actually teach successfully (at least their own method and way of thinking about it).
If you wanted to do a certificate in TESOL through an actual university, then there are a lot to choose from. In Australia, for example, a certificate is four units. It takes a single term. From there, you can do a second term and walk away with a diploma. And from there, a third and have a masters. However, a lot of universities structure it in such a way as to minimize the requirements, so if you actually do do a certificate, then you need only do four more units to get the masters from the same university, and so those universities usually don't offer a diploma in TESOL, just a postgrad certificate and a masters.
Here's one example of a school that has that kind of a structure:
Deakin University GC TESOL
followed by
Deakin University MTESOL
In Ontario, Canada, however, a 'certificate' is an academic year. For example, Carleton University CTESL
Note, in ALL cases, you study individual units with professors of the area. It's not one person doing everything. It takes a lot longer than a month. Most courses have actual grades (sometimes practicum is just pass or fail). That's really quite different from what is done in short, newbie-certificates. Also note that when you click the button for the university at the top left, you go back to the university's homepage, and if you do a search in the university for the programs they immediately come up in the university's program listings, along with English, math, history, biology etc. They are considered part of the programs offered by the university itself, they are not part of a separate entity. The University of Cambridge ones go back to the faculty, and have a button on the top for the university itself. The CELTA page lacks that one.
Last edited by GambateBingBangBOOM on Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:35 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Kofola
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 159
Location: Slovakia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: |
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I think the CELTA is a good certificate to have in that you learn various techniques and because it represents some kind of industry standard. However, it is fairly prescriptive, which may cause problems if you don't like some of its approaches or the way it weights certain things.
'To standard' is a very wide category. The standards displayed by trainees on my course varied widely amongst those who got Cs. My understanding is that 'C' is a much much broader category than 'A'.
It is a subjectively marked course. There is no right or wrong answer as there is in a multiple choice test, for instance, so there is bound to be some degree of disparity. The criteria themselves may be fairly strict. However, it is down to the indvividual's trainer perception of whether the trainee has successfully done x or y.
I was told by my CELTA trainers that teachers with existing experience would have to show that they made substantial progress on the course. This suggests that experienced teachers and non-experienced teachers are not marked equally in terms of what they produce. This was the case on my course with some 'to standard' lessons clearly being much better than others. If you had existing experience then this might explain your situation.
I suspect Glenski hasn't taken the CELTA since one of the tasks of trainees is precisely to 'rank'/assess the other trainees' lessons. During these feedback sessions, it was clear that some 'to standard' lessons had more serious flaws than others.
I wouldn't worry too much about it though. The actual grades are fairly meaningless to most employers and the main thing is that it gives you a basis from which to build upon. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm currently studying through Deakin, the highest grade I can get is High Distinction. The lowest is Pass. So I suppose there's no fail? |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jpvanderwerf2001 wrote: |
P.S. I would like to take a bit to defend Glenski here. He obviously misunderstood the "to" thing, and while he perhaps could have been more tactful in his response, to call him an "idiot" is harsh; he adds a lot to this forum. Again, good luck! |
Yes, on reflection I was rather harsh in my reply. My sincere apologies to Glenski (and I really do mean that), but I'd had a day of being talked down to by tutors and wasn't really in the mood for someone trying to correct my English, especially when I hadn't written anything wrong.
Let's leave the grammar corrections for the classroom, shall we?  |
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