Job Discussion Forums

[laconic]

[Montanaland]

Generally unlikley in the ME and especially in the future>

[Justin Trullinger]

Hey, Montanaland- welcome to the boards, and to the profession.
Couple of things you should know:

Though I happen to agree with you about the value of good distance degrees, this is a view that not all ministries of immigration share. Laconic is dead right with this, and should be listened to: Not all foreign governments or employers recognise distance degrees as equal to degrees completed onsite. The rules change from time to time, so you want to stay on top of things- but if you're aiming for the ME, plan carefully. Some middle eastern countries are amongst the most disagreeable about distance degrees.

Statements like "the US has the best education in the world" or "they aren't going to reject it" can sound ingenuous and, to a certain ear, offensive. Whether the US has the best schools is an opinion, and it's one that residents of many countries can be forgiven for not sharing. Whether they're going to reject it...their call. And if it's a distance degree, some will. (Unfairly, in my opinion, but they aren't interested in my opinion, so the point is moot.)

And...tell us about yourself. Cause frankly, I find this:

[Perilla]

[Montanaland]

Hi Justin,

First off I want to apologize if I come off sounding confrontational in anyway. As I mentioned before I work in a high school and have been around licensed teachers and administrators for the last 3 yrs (including gf's that are both a teacher and a dean) ...so that probably contributes a little of the passion to my words. I was in real estate and banking previously.

We all pride ourselves on diligently researching the facts behind something as serious as putting our time and money into. As with taking a 10-20yr career in a field such as teaching the path is black and white. I'm pretty accurate at finding the underlying truth and realities of what I�m researching.

We all have better things to do with our time than question the general understanding and hoops you have to jump through to get certified in education here in the states or abroad to make a good long-term living in Esl.


My findings are exactly what you stated about what ME countries reject distant ma's

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

"the most efficient path to highest paying/cushiest job in esl. from what I've found higher education and working in the me is that path."

In general, yer correct, but unless yer utterly jaded and many become jes' that, you'll earn every dollar of that wage.

And, lest I forget...thank you for your adult P.M. over this morning's matters.

NCTBA

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I'm sure there are many exceptions, including myself, of people who have managed to secure very good EFL positions without MAs. However, in general, I agree with Montana regarding the importance of MAs in this industry, especially in the future. I also agree with his words that distance degrees will, one day, be seen to be as valid as brick and mortar MAs.

The secret to becoming successful in EFL, in my experience, has been to find places where there aren't very many native speakers; be professional, social and make contacts; and stay for a while. At least this is how I've done it without an MA. (That being said, I hope to start an MA program very soon! )

[laconic]

[Justin Trullinger]

Were we? We hadn't mentioned the word "cushy" till just now.

I don't do cushy- work hard, play hard, that's the best way to live!

I've already got a pretty well paid EFL related job. Of the 10-20 year career you mention, I'm already more than half way in.

There is very little that is black and white in this world. The "best career path" certainly isn't. Neither is "who has the best schools." YOu don't have to believe me, or agree with me. You may find, though, as you head into an international career, that expressing your personal absolute opinions as facts may not be something your colleagues (who are frequently not going to share your nationality or career decisions) are going to appreciate.

Good luck with the teaching. I really do appreciate your desire to pursue appropriate qualifications.

all the best,
Justin

[Justin Trullinger]

PS- Distance masters. From a fully acredited university. I'm from the US, but chose a UK university, for a wide variety of reasons.

J

[tttompatz]

This thread has certainly provided a lot of comedy relief.

Truth:

In the great, grand world of ESL/EFL most places don't give a pretty petunia about a MATESOL or MA anything.
MOST places aren't even worried about your having an undergraduate degree.
MOST places are happy if you have a 120 hour TESOL cert of one flavor or another and a bit of classroom experience.

EVEN AT ENTRY level wages most EFLers can make a decent living as a single person. With a few years under their belt they may add to their professional development and move up the scales.

Now as to your MATESOL and the middle east -
MA's cost money - big money - even on-line (assuming you can get an employer to accept it). Employers outside the US are NOT required to even consider your US-based on-line MA anymore than they are required to accept a 1000 Baht MA/Ph.D from a street vendor in Bangkok.

Why doesn't everyone move to the middle east for the big bucks? It speaks for itself - there is a good reason they pay so much - most folks who are qualified aren't interested in the super-crap they get in the ME (not even for the big bucks).

Long term in EFL... depends on WHO you want to teach and WHERE you want to teach. The US model of education is NOT carried over onto most of the planet (thank Christ/Buddha/Alla or any other flavor of deity you wish to insert).

MATESOL/linguistics is great if you want to go into academia (teach at colleges and universities, etc.)

A B.Ed and/or PGCE/PGDE + some experience if you want to work with kids (international schools).

TESOL/TEFL/CELTA/DELTA (etc) + an undergrad degree in any subject if you want to work with kids or adults outside of the more formal educational institutions or just plain public schools in most places on the planet.

A simple, generic TESOL cert is adequate for many places if you want work as an EFL instructor in a language institute .

Can you make a decent living as an ESL teacher?

I like to think so.
16 years as a teacher (12 in ESL in Asia) and I own my own house (mortgage free), the 5 hectares of land that it sits on, raised a family with a stay-at-home mom and have a comfortable pension built up.
My family travels internationally at least twice per year and we have visited more countries than most can name (unless you happen to be Yakko Warner) - including the lower 48 and the 10 provinces of Canada.

I have NEVER used anything other than a basic BA + experience on my resume or visa applications (even though I hold 3 undergrad degrees, 2 masters and an ABD)[professional student] .

Will you get rich, retire back to Malibu and watch the beach bunnies?
Probably not.

Can you pay off your student loans, raise a family, have a good life, own your own home and be debt free = yes.

.
.

[naturegirl321]

[JZer]

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

JZer...some people are jes' not language learners. I'm not and my in-laws aren't. Why should we be classified? We understand each other enuf without either of us being fluent in each other's language.

Sometimes, it's jes' about ability...my wife's got it...even the phonology at her late age...I don't...

NCTBA

[naturegirl321]