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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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 Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Actually, my most treasured possession is my signed hard-backed edition of Raymond's current Blue. Got it at the IATEFL in Liverpool some years back. Magic! |
There's a hard-covered one? Wow, I could use that, mine is getting pretty beat up. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| I think it was a special edition, only presented to devoted acolytes who knew the secret handshake. Sorry. |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
Nick, I agree - in the case that one is using a coursebook! But keep in mind that they aren't always used by schools, and in that case, the grammar reference books are priceless.
Also, have you checked out Murphy's? I agree with earlier posters that it's relatively 'warm' and 'fuzzy.' |
Taking a first job at ILA Vietnam 'should' be the kind of job that offers support from other teachers, and suitably qualified staff as well as course materials. I think he will be OK. I do know how difficult it is as a newbie without course materials, and I would still stick to my guns and suggest coursebooks as the best tool one can use.
I truly believe buying coursebooks / teachers books, and learning grammar from them is easier and more relevant than reference books. I was lucky enough to use Face 2 Face books in my last job and I feel I have picked up more grammatical knowledge from them than I have from any other source including reference books, and an Open University course called 'English Grammar in Use' that lasted 9 months!
Reference books are great for grammarians IMO...but just dont cut it for newbies. Too often a grammatical term or point, is defined with other grammatical terms that may not be understood by the newbie reader. This was often the case with me when I had Swann, and this was true for my Trinity coursemates, as at that time, none of us felt Swann was of any use at all during the course. As a result I ebayed my copy as it was worse than useless for me! 
Grammar work books for students also failed me. Too many exercises that I could easily complete as a native speaker, but little in the way of explanation about 'why'.
It might be worth looking on ebay for such coursebooks and teachers books to go with them. One can buy old, used copies of things like Headway at very reasonable prices as a resource to learn from, and perhaps create lesson plans with. Although the books and the material may be dated, the rules concerning the grammar isn't and so is still useful today.
At time of writing, I am sitting with a reference book - longman grammar of spoken and written English...and checking comparatives / superlatives. Its definitions are far less accessible than Face 2 Face textbooks, and dont come with exercises or tasks that could be used within a classroom setting. Im pretty sure my parents wouldnt 'get it' from Longman, but the simple explanations of a course book offer something they could get their heads around, and us newbies are often the same IMO.
Of course...I could just be s l o w |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
| Might I suggest Michael Swann's "The Good Grammar Book". |
| nickpellatt wrote: |
| none of us felt Swann was of any use at all during the course. |
I agree that Swan's books are worth collecting as reference works. But why are people here writing his surname with two Ns? Have I been reading the wrong Michael all these years?  |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think he's a Simple Swan as well 
I also like his work. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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If you ever...and I mean EVER want to extinguish, end, immediately curtail, finalize, abolish, annihilate, blot out, crush, destroy, eliminate, eradicate, exterminate, extirpate, obliterate, quell, remove, squash, stamp out, suppress, wipe out anyone's interest in being a grammarian...you confront them with this tome with the orders to "read it, know it, love it."
http://www.amazon.com/Grammar-Book-Teachers-Course-Second/dp/0838447252/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1280790820&sr=1-1#_
I, personally, guarantee it!
NCTBA |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
| Might I suggest Michael Swann's "The Good Grammar Book". |
| nickpellatt wrote: |
| none of us felt Swann was of any use at all during the course. |
I agree that Swan's books are worth collecting as reference works. But why are people here writing his surname with two Ns? Have I been reading the wrong Michael all these years? |
I don't know about the other poster, but my right index finger has a tendency to stammer...
Pls. don't point it out again, it took forever to get it's self-confidence back...
NCTBA |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| NCTBA wrote: |
| Pls. don't point it out again, it took forever to get it's self-confidence back... |
Yet the right pinky finger apparently still has a bit of the Tourette syndrome!
You are correct about Celce-Murcia. I edited one of her articles many years ago. She's a nice lady, but she has a problem with explaining -- and writing -- the English language. |
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