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PO1
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 136
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 Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:11 am Post subject: Good Resources for Learning Japanese |
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I've been scanning the forums for any info on this, but have yet to find any specific topic. So I started a new one!
I would say I'm maybe a beginner on the higher end (I can read some kanji, all kana) and can typically hold a conversation for a brief period.
The issue I have is finding some kind of "essential" (or at least really good) books (or software) that doesn't breeze over each aspect. I own My Japanese Coach for DS (which is a lot better than I imagined, yet still flawed) and I just ordered Human Japanese in lieu of Rosetta Stone, mainly because I don't have 500 bucks.
I have "Minna no Nihongo" from my Japanese classes I took last year. This seems to be a pretty standard text I guess. I have about a dozen phrase books of varying degrees of worth as well and two or three Japanese-English dictionaries. Just ordered a book exclusively for kanji. That's what I'm kind of looking for. Books, software, or websites that don't glaze over 100 different things but cater to specific aspects (kanji, kana, grammar, conversation, etc.) I don't need romaji, but English explanations of what something means are helpful (i.e. cat=ねこ=猫)
Soooo...I assume a lot of you have have lived long-term in Japan learned Japanese to different extents. Some of you have the advantage of being married to a citizen or have just been there a long time. I understand immersion really is the best way of learning, so I'm looking to really get serious about my studies.
Any suggestions? I want to improve to help future job prospects, so any help is appreciated. |
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kotoko
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:56 am Post subject: |
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The thing I love about Japanese is that it's so easy to get some good studying done for free.
Minna no Nihongo was how I started. I love it. Mr Watto and co will be in my heart forever 
Listening:
Japanesepod101.com has free podcasts at every level. It's hosted by an American guy and a few Japanese girls (and sometimes guys) and explains in great detail about the language and phrases used in the dialog. I really ought to listen to it more myself.
mysoju.com has free Japanese movies and dramas to watch, with English subtitles. A lot of people might disagree with using these but I think that listening to the Japanese and reading the meaning at the same time has some benefits.
Grammar/Vocab:
smart.fm is an online flashcard style website with loads of lists to learn from. Not just Japanese but loads of things can be learned through this site. This is great for pounding kanji for JLPT tests too.
Reading:
If you are in Japan, try the Asahi junior high school newspaper. It might be a little too difficult but if you keep at it then you'll find yourself improving over time. There is an elementary school version but I've never seen or used it before so I can't comment.
Manga!! Part of reading that is the most difficult is the speed. You can read anything if you had enough time and patience to go through each word and each phrase with the internet and a few dictionaries but it just gets to boring and tiring. Manga is an easy step to get up to reading actual passages and stuff. The first manga I read was 花より男子 and it took me like 2 months to read one book. I kept at it and now I can gobble up a book a day. Once you get used to reading manga and want the next step, http://newsmanga.com/ is the news (ie more difficult vocab) but in manga style.
Writing:
lang-8.com is a website on which you write diaries in the language(s) you are studying, and then native speakers come and correct them for you. You then go say thank you by correcting their English diaries. This is probably the SINGLE thing that has improved my Japanese the most. When I'm speaking, people don't stop to correct me, but the users at Lang-8 are ruthless in their corrections. Don't be discouraged when they slate your carefully arranged sentences that you've just spend 10 hours over and get your own back by being equally strict over theirs 
Speaking:
Sharedtalk.com is a website made by the people at Rosetta Stone, and you can go and find people who speak the languages you are learning, then talk to them on msn-type and skype-type apps.
Hope that helps  |
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PO1
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, thanks for all the help! The only one I knew was Japanesepod101. It seems like a really good resource. I found YesJapan.com is pretty good in that regard too. Helpful explanations in English, but not over-explaining to the point of being annoying.
I'll have to check out the other sites soon. I hope some other people offer some other advice. You gave me a lot to research already though!
Thanks!! |
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Bread
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar
and
http://kanjidamage.com/
Are the only things I needed to get pretty proficient. Both of these websites are really fantastic and leagues beyond any textbook I've seen. I doubt anything better than Kanji Damage exists for kanji, it's pretty easy to remember all 1760 of them on there along with 訓読み、音読み、and 熟語 if you plug away at them every day. I've found Anki to be loads better than smart.fm, provided you make your own cards for it. |
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Rakuten
Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Those are some great resources you listed off there Kotoko.
As far as text books go- I really like Minna no Nihongo and Genki! Both those texts are very good. Mary + Takeshi 4ever! 
Tae Kim's Grammar Guide is extremely useful/essential Japanese.
Smart.fm has a really great application/game called "Brainspeed" and it tests your kanji recognition through fast-paced drills.
As for beginners manga- I recommend, DORAEMON! It's a great story and a pretty easy read for beginners. Plus, it's very famous in Japan and well-loved. So, if you know the story/have read Doraemon, it may impress a number of Japanese.
That being said, I don't think reading manga/watching anime is really that good of a means to learning Japanese, personally. There are much better/more productive ways to go about it.
Edit: Wow Bread. I just checked out Kanjidamage and it's pretty awesome! This seems like a really good way to learn/get better at kanji. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Rakuten wrote: |
| That being said, I don't think reading manga/watching anime is really that good of a means to learning Japanese, personally. There are much better/more productive ways to go about it. |
One of the problems with reading manga is that you will sound crazy/geeky. It is natural Japanese, but not always socially appropriate.
I liked the Busy People series, Intermediate Japanese by the Japan Times.
I also read some abridged novels written for elementary school students. Funny thing, reading a story without kanji can be more difficult! |
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Bread
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| steki47 wrote: |
| Funny thing, reading a story without kanji can be more difficult! |
Yeah, when I was picking up my first few manga I got Dragonball because I figured it would be aimed at kids and have simple language, but it ended up being the hardest one I got because It's almost 100% hiragana. Japanese people think it's really funny that it's so much harder for me to read kids' stuff than adults'. |
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kotoko
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| steki47 wrote: |
One of the problems with reading manga is that you will sound crazy/geeky. It is natural Japanese, but not always socially appropriate.
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But that's the point, you're not reading textbook Japanese. Japanese people don't go around speaking like they do in the textbooks, just like we don't go round speaking like people from English textbooks. Unless you're reading like crazy samurai books and thinking people speak like that, there is no harm what so ever reading manga and learning from it. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:24 pm Post subject: Reading |
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Kotoko, so true on the textbook Japanese. I've met some Japanese learners with high proficiency who haven't learned register.
For reading proficiency, I picked up Read Real Japanese, one volume of essays, the other short stories.
I also read Roald Dahl in Japanese. I remember the stories from my childhood, so the plot is familiar, but there are details I forgot, of course. I learn a lot of phrases, vocabulary and increase my reading speed as I get into the book.
I just got turned on to smart.fm. What an amazing resource! |
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Bread
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Rakuten wrote: |
| Edit: Wow Bread. I just checked out Kanjidamage and it's pretty awesome! This seems like a really good way to learn/get better at kanji. |
I shared my Anki deck for it yesterday on the Anki download thing, so feel free to use it.
The guy also has a pretty awesome blog at http://www.hellodamage.com/top/ , today there is a dictionary of words with っ in them! |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Bread wrote: |
| steki47 wrote: |
| Funny thing, reading a story without kanji can be more difficult! |
Japanese people think it's really funny that it's so much harder for me to read kids' stuff than adults'. |
Some Japanese I spoke to thought the same, but more educated and experienced people understood what I was talking about. The narrow phonemic range of Japanese leads to a high frequency of homophones and can confuse the reader. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kotoko wrote: |
| steki47 wrote: |
One of the problems with reading manga is that you will sound crazy/geeky. It is natural Japanese, but not always socially appropriate.
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But that's the point, you're not reading textbook Japanese. Japanese people don't go around speaking like they do in the textbooks, just like we don't go round speaking like people from English textbooks. Unless you're reading like crazy samurai books and thinking people speak like that, there is no harm what so ever reading manga and learning from it. |
I understand your point. Textbook Japanese can sound awkward to the Japanese. Too prescriptive, as it were. The issue with manga is probably my fault, as I chose to read samurai/yakuza stories and learned archaic/evil Japanese. |
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Bread
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| steki47 wrote: |
| kotoko wrote: |
| steki47 wrote: |
One of the problems with reading manga is that you will sound crazy/geeky. It is natural Japanese, but not always socially appropriate.
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But that's the point, you're not reading textbook Japanese. Japanese people don't go around speaking like they do in the textbooks, just like we don't go round speaking like people from English textbooks. Unless you're reading like crazy samurai books and thinking people speak like that, there is no harm what so ever reading manga and learning from it. |
I understand your point. Textbook Japanese can sound awkward to the Japanese. Too prescriptive, as it were. The issue with manga is probably my fault, as I chose to read samurai/yakuza stories and learned archaic/evil Japanese. |
I find that in casual conversation (although maybe this is just the people I hang out with) girls are a lot more likely to use 丁寧語 than guys, so textbooks would probably get them a bit further without sounding awkward. I almost never hear guys say anything that sounds remotely like textbook Japanese in conversation outside of work. If you're a male then you should probably try to imitate your male Japanese friends' speech patterns, if you're a female then you should try to imitate your female Japanese friends', barring absolutely huge personality differences. That sounds vaguely sexist to Western ears, but men and women talk way differently here.
As for manga, I think even stuff like samurai and yakuza manga is still beneficial. As you read it you're internalizing and getting used to grammatical structures, even if the vocabulary isn't so helpful. I think anything set in the present day and not targeted at kids （and even the kids' stuff - just don't try to imitate the characters) is going to net you tons of useful vocabulary and grammar, regardless of the content. Obviously stuff that's set in the modern day in a realistic situation with realistic characters will probably be the most useful, but it's more important to be interested in what you're reading. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Bread wrote: |
I find that in casual conversation (although maybe this is just the people I hang out with) girls are a lot more likely to use 丁寧語 than guys, so textbooks would probably get them a bit further without sounding awkward. I almost never hear guys say anything that sounds remotely like textbook Japanese in conversation outside of work. If you're a male then you should probably try to imitate your male Japanese friends' speech patterns, if you're a female then you should try to imitate your female Japanese friends', barring absolutely huge personality differences. That sounds vaguely sexist to Western ears, but men and women talk way differently here. |
That's a very good point. It helps if the foreign male can find a male teacher. Rare in most cases.
Aside from texts and formal study, I found that doing martial arts (or any other sport) was a great way to learn from and interact with Japanese men. You share a common hobby and will hear/speak natural masculine Japanese. |
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kotoko
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Reading |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
Kotoko, so true on the textbook Japanese. I've met some Japanese learners with high proficiency who haven't learned register.
For reading proficiency, I picked up Read Real Japanese, one volume of essays, the other short stories.
I also read Roald Dahl in Japanese. I remember the stories from my childhood, so the plot is familiar, but there are details I forgot, of course. I learn a lot of phrases, vocabulary and increase my reading speed as I get into the book.
I just got turned on to smart.fm. What an amazing resource! |
Read real Japanese is great. I was going to say it too but I think it's beyond the OP's level. |
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