Job Discussion Forums

[Hindi2610]

Good day to all!

I joined the forum since yesterday but am a long time lurker. I appreciate that already I have learned so much of useful information. I hope that you can offer advices for my status.

I am a native English speaker from India. I am living in Mumbai my whole life, since 35 years.

The economic pressures are rising up, and I hope to bring my families to elsewhere for greater life qualities. I am seeking to teach English in China at high school or university levels, or whatever levels can be available. I have three children and my spouse will stay at home as a housewife role. My backgrounds are literature and software engineer.

Do you know of schools offering employment for those with this qualification? We'll need apartment provides. I was offered alread a gig at 3,500 RMB each month. Is it adequate?

Warmest thank you,

Janesh

[nickpellatt]

Hello Janesh

I personally feel that it might be better for you and your family if you concentrate on finding something secure that offers a future within India, despite the economic crisis. With a background in literature and software engineering are there other avenues of employment you could explore?

China isnt a great destination to move a family and children too. Healthcare and education could be difficult and expensive, although this may not be different from India ... I dont really know.

It would be hard, but not impossible, to raise a family on 3500 a month, and so it would hardly be a dream job. Added to this, teaching in China is likely to be as insecure as your current employment in India is. Even more so when you consider that your WRITTEN English is very very far away from being 'native speaker', and is full of mistakes than many students, and employers, may not tolerate. Judging purely on this post, I think it is more realistic to say you are NOT a native speaker. Few people in India are.

I do feel there is something positive in students being exposed to other forms of English, but I think realistically....an Indian man, with average (at best) English skills, a family to support, and (I assume) no relevant EFL qualifications or experience would be better considering another career, another country.

Sorry ... no good news from me really, but I do think my post is realistic

[Miasaurus]

You would not be considered a native English speaker in China. This, as Nick said, makes it very unlikely that you will find a secure position. If a school does hire you, you'll have to work that much harder to be offered another contract, and even then you may be passed over in favor of a 22yo Canadian with no experience. I know plenty of non-native speakers take the chance, but, considering your family, I think you should be extra careful.

I will say that your written English is worse than what I've seen from many of my uni students, and English spoken with an Indian accent is notoriously difficult to understand.

If you're set on coming to China, try to find work as a software engineer. There are a million in Jiangsu province, and the jobs tend to be more secure and lucrative.

[dharma86]

I think 3500 is too low, and i'm speaking from the perspective of 1 person moving to China, not a whole family. I think there would be a big strain on your spendings and it could get very difficult. You're just heading out of the frying pan and into the fire!

In my opinion, in this day and age, the bare minumum should be at least 4000. Where is this 3500 job may I ask?

[Hindi2610]

Thank you for your responses!

I appreciate your helpful thoughts. I detect some jealously or protective spirit of job from some of the Americans, but that can be understood while India overtakes the economics of others. Not to worry, I am only needing one job, not all!

Yes, Indians are native speakers of English as well as other common languages -- ex Bengali, Hindi, Tamil etc. Indeed, the accent is a bit different. But no different to how Americans may see the English of British, New Zealand, Australia.

To be discriminated is not a surprise. I have confidence for persevering and become a top-quality teacher! We cannot give up, if we are truly seeking of success.

I will not accept the 3500. It is in Shandong. I obtained this offer when a teacher posted the contract in a forum, for evaluation by peers before accepting. The offer 5,000, so I quickly contacted the school with an offer of a lower price. But I now know it is too low. Is it possible I could contact schools in the middle of the semester and offer to replace expensive, ineffective teachers?

[nickpellatt]

We are only trying to offer honest, helpful advice. Im from the UK by the way, and in all honesty, the success or failure of India doesnt make any difference to me.

As I already said ... I think exposing students to different varieties of English does have value, but from the original post, it is clear that your standard of English is very far from being classed as a native speaker, even allowing for regional variation. You have far too many errors in grammar, word order and lexical choices, and as such, this would indicate you may not be able to pass the type of standard English examinations that your students study for, or have already passed. (CET and PET exams). The adult students I worked with in my last job in China would not accept a teacher using English as you have used it on this forum so far. This could easily lead to you being asked to leave a job quite quickly.

A native speaker of any language is normally someone who speaks the language from birth, is surrounded by this language as a child as its the first language of parents and carers. English may be an official language of India, but it is not the native tongue for most Indians. Wikipedia suggest only 226,000 can count it as their mother tongue from a population of 1 billion plus. Thats a fairly small % of Indians.

Some of the key points for employment in China are;
white face,
native speaker,
university qualifications,
EFL qualifications,
EFL experience.

Yes, some of these are racially motivated, and like it or not, that is true for most of China. You have made no mention of EFL experience or qualifications, and yet are still thinking about moving to another country to do a job you have no training or experience in. Thats a bold move, even for a single man, native speaker, no family.

On this basis, you do not score well as a prospective teacher in China, and the advice given is probably given in consideration for your family, and the polite tone of your request. Please take it seriously and think long and hard about your plans.

[johntpartee]

Hindi2610, to be perfectly blunt, you are making a huge mistake. There is technically no such thing as a totally SECURE job for foreigners in China. Anything can happen at anytime.

[cormac]

The thing is that despite your qualifications you're not a qualified teacher. Which means that you fall into the same boat as many other foreigners in China. And yet, the main problem with china is that they have the expectation that their teachers (if unqualified) would be white westerners. And because of that, you will face many problems when dealing with prospective employers. You'll also face problems with dealing with your employer on a normal basis and the measure of respect you receive.

Its not really discrimination as such. Its just what the Chinese (and many other Asians) expect from their teachers.

Just in regards to accent, I have a few friends from India I met in Australia who had flat accents. Perhaps you've taken the trouble to develop a similar lack of accent. I worked quite hard myself to get rid or tone down my originally strong Irish accent.

Personally, with the experience you suggested in your starting post, I'd recommend looking for professional/business positions. Teaching is dodgy, and doesn't really pay that well until you've put in the time both in qualifications and work experience.

[teachaus]

Another thing to consider which may actually be a better fit for you is university jobs teaching computer skills. I know that the university I work in has an Indian teacher starting soon who will be teaching a computing subject. My university has some courses that are taught in English mainly targeted to International Students and for it do look at recruiting teachers who have the qualifications in the study area and English. I know that we are not unique in that. Probably actually a better fit for you than English teaching. The primary reason that we are employed has English teachers in China is with regard to Oral English and Accent is a significant part of that.

[JamesD]

I'll admit to being cynical 95% of the time but honestly, is everyone here that gullible? Have the trolls become so adept?

[johntpartee]

No, but it is kinda fun in a twisted sorta way.

[johntpartee]

Plus, you never know, JamesD. There is a Swedish English teacher here whom I can barely understand. Here's the text of a note he left on my door yesterday: "Okey, will see you at hous latter". Anybody know what that means? I got the idea he wanted to meet me later at one of our apartments, but.......

[kev7161]

[Miasaurus]

James - I didn't get it at first. I'm embarassed now.

[johntpartee]

Makes perfect sense to me. He's offering to replace expensive, ineffective teachers with inexpensive, ineffective teachers. Whadda guy.