Job Discussion Forums

[phliKtid]

greetings. i am hoping i can get general guidance or information from this forum, based on my interests, background, etc. thanks in advance for any responses. (and sorry about the length...brevity isn't one of my strengths.)

i know a lot of these questions could be asked on the general forum instead of the russia-specific one, but i'm really interested in answers as they relate to efl jobs in russia.

first, the possible negatives:
[0] i'm posting to people who teach english, and i don't use capitalization in online communication (with 3 exceptions). i really do know how to use capitalization though. :) oh, i also use (real, text-based) emoticons online.
[1] i've never been a teacher, and have no educational background related to teaching. (my dad taught jr. high english for about 13 years, but i don't think that is genetically transferred...)
[2] english is the only language i speak.
[3] i've never lived outside the u.s.
[4] i am 41 years old. (i know a lot of newbies are very young, and a lot of the older people doing this already had teaching careers...thus relevant backgrounds.)

my general background: i received a b.s. in aerospace engineering from Texas a&m and worked for about 4 years at nasa (johnson space center, for lockheed-martin) on the space station program. i have spent the last 11.5 years working in information technology as a unix sys admin / engineer. i'm single, with no children. the only debt i currently have is on a harley-davidson motorcycle. i currently make decent money. (i mention this last one since some might question the pay/lifestyle change, but i think that's somewhat irrelevant -- i don't live a very extravagant lifestyle, i'm not all about more money, and i grew up in rural Texas fairly poor (although i didn't really know it -- or care -- at the time).)

over the last couple of years i've gotten really interested in russian culture. i had some latent interest for years and years, but that changed after a russian girl became a co-worker for about 2 years. we eventually dated for about 1.5 years. she's been in the u.s. since she was 18 or so (coming over by herself in an exchange program) and doesn't really seem to care about her russian background, but i thought it was really cool and interesting. i also came to realize that a lot of the personality traits and quirks i liked about her seemed to be related to being russian in general, not just specific to her. and that i just found all kinds of things about russia interesting, especially since i had a real person to whom i could connect all of those latent interests. after our dating ended, i've read several of the classic russian authors (in english, of course), watched russian movies (both modern and classic), etc. i've been listening to russian online radio stations and have bought/downloaded various material to learn russian. (but i haven't gotten very far.)

at some point i kind of came to the conclusion that what i'd really like to do is live in russia -- to experience it not from afar or short term as a tourist, but to really have a chance to understand the people and the culture. hopefully it might also provide the opportunity to learn the language at least somewhat (although, to be honest, that feels like a near impossible task to me most of the time).

i have a (tall, bald, white, american) long-time friend who has lived for several years in taiwan, going to graduate school there. he is a language freak, having taught himself dutch, mandarin, and some russian, german, etc. he is studying for a phd, geared toward teaching chinese to foreigners (in other words, he's not just in school learning chinese as a foreigner). he has been my main source of information regarding living/working overseas, plus he knows a lot of people from numerous countries who live in taiwan for various reasons. i went there for a couple of weeks back in february, to visit him and see how i handled being in a foreign country. i've heard too many stories about fast onsets of culture shock. obviously he was a big crutch for me, but he did let me fend for myself at times, and i did go out and about on my own too.

he thought i handled myself very well, which encouraged me to consider the possibility of living overseas. however, he and numerous other people (including russian expats) have told me russia might not be a good first place to go as an overseas experience. he's offered to help me in taipei, giving me a chance to try living in a "safe" country. (i must say, i never felt uncomfortable in taipei at all.) then if i liked it and wanted to, i could move on to a more "harsh" environment.

the problem with that is what i'm really interested in is russia. i know taiwan could be a means to an end, but if i could cut out that step it would be nice. to be honest, i'd sort of feel guilty if i am in taiwan and not interested in their culture or learning the language or whatever. (although my guess would be i'd probably end up liking things about it.) maybe that's the best path to take to get me where i'd like to be? even going it alone (as compared to having my friend in taiwan) in some other "safe" place like the czech republic would feel like i'm closer to my goal.

related, i've also considered trying to find expat jobs in russia related to my current career. one russian expat said if i went to russian with an expat job then russia would seem like a fairy tale and i'd have a wonderful time, but if i actually had a local job i would hate it because i'd have to deal with all of the difficulties of the country. i do worry that if i lived there in an expat job environment i would be trapped in an expat bubble, and might never have the chance to really experience the people/culture. on the other hand, i might be able to use that as a safe way to step out, and if i liked it then jump in with both feet. of course, i'd have to find such an expat job first, and i don't think that's very easy. which leads me back to idea of teaching.

i'm also curious about certifications. i've read enough to know certifications can't hurt, but i also know some places don't care about them (obviously such places wouldn't have the pay or perks of jobs based on experience and expertise.) i know i don't have a teaching background, so i don't know that having most of the certs available are going to help me much at all since i'm basically at level 0 anyway. i also don't feel like i could financially justify quitting my job to go to a celta course (which they have here in houston) before trying to get a job overseas (since i'm single and would thus have to continue paying all of my current obligations during that time). although perhaps if it would really make a big difference, i could work something out. it's also possible that even if it didn't help with a job, it might be good to take any tefl/tefol/whatever course just to get my brain working in those areas.

is it possible that my engineering/i.t. background would actually be helpful in the efl environment? i'm not sure if any efl jobs might be related to engineering or i.t. vernacular (or need someone with a server-level i.t. background).

i know i'm talking to a lot of people who teach as a profession -- a number of whom are in it for the long haul -- so i'm aware my (lack of) background denotes a "tourist" (that's what they called a lot of the short-term efl teachers in taiwan that are really just doing it for fun or adventure). and perhaps that's all i'd end up being. but i hope not. and i'm not coming in believing i should/will get a great job with great pay, or be respected as a teacher. if i choose to try teaching, the idea of "paying my dues" doesn't bother me. if i am being hired as a teacher, i want to be able to teach. and if i can't, i don't want to waste other people's time and money.

let me finish by noting i am not a big risk taker, i'm not normally one to make major changes (or perhaps even minor ones) without serious amounts of thought and trepidation. so it might be easy for me to be talked out of any of this. (once i do make up my mind, however....) but i'm hoping i can find a way to do this and feel fairly comfortable about my decisions (or at least know i have a way out :) ).

at this point i feel like there are a near infinite number of questions and possible paths, so i appreciate any level of guidance, suggestions, information, etc. any of y'all could provide me -- to either cut me off at the pass or get me moving in the right direction.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Hello there, my responses in bold.

i know a lot of these questions could be asked on the general forum instead of the russia-specific one, but i'm really interested in answers as they relate to efl jobs in russia.

first, the possible negatives:
[0] i'm posting to people who teach english, and i don't use capitalization in online communication (with 3 exceptions). i really do know how to use capitalization though. oh, i also use (real, text-based) emoticons online.

Not a problem for me, although there will be some here who bust your chops about it.

[1] i've never been a teacher, and have no educational background related to teaching. (my dad taught jr. high english for about 13 years, but i don't think that is genetically transferred...)

Not such a problem, per se, as there are dozens upon dozens of month-long teacher-training courses out there. I suggest a CELTA if you're serious.

[2] english is the only language i speak.

Me too. Well, really speak...

[3] i've never lived outside the u.s.

Not a problem if you have an open mind and can go with the flow. The latter, I think, is very important if you're going to come live in a place like Russia.

[4] i am 41 years old. (i know a lot of newbies are very young, and a lot of the older people doing this already had teaching careers...thus relevant backgrounds.)

Not a problem, especially if you have the personality traits mentioned above.

my general background: i received a b.s. in aerospace engineering from Texas a&m and worked for about 4 years at nasa (johnson space center, for lockheed-martin) on the space station program. i have spent the last 11.5 years working in information technology as a unix sys admin / engineer. i'm single, with no children. the only debt i currently have is on a harley-davidson motorcycle. i currently make decent money. (i mention this last one since some might question the pay/lifestyle change, but i think that's somewhat irrelevant -- i don't live a very extravagant lifestyle, i'm not all about more money, and i grew up in rural Texas fairly poor (although i didn't really know it -- or care -- at the time).)

Not having debts is very good. You probably won't make a ton of cash to pay off bills "back home".
I think your education/experience have some inroads to teaching, such as being organized, realizing the importance of timeliness, and dealing with space cadets.

over the last couple of years i've gotten really interested in russian culture. i had some latent interest for years and years, but that changed after a russian girl became a co-worker for about 2 years. we eventually dated for about 1.5 years. she's been in the u.s. since she was 18 or so (coming over by herself in an exchange program) and doesn't really seem to care about her russian background, but i thought it was really cool and interesting. i also came to realize that a lot of the personality traits and quirks i liked about her seemed to be related to being russian in general, not just specific to her. and that i just found all kinds of things about russia interesting, especially since i had a real person to whom i could connect all of those latent interests. after our dating ended, i've read several of the classic russian authors (in english, of course), watched russian movies (both modern and classic), etc. i've been listening to russian online radio stations and have bought/downloaded various material to learn russian. (but i haven't gotten very far.)

at some point i kind of came to the conclusion that what i'd really like to do is live in russia -- to experience it not from afar or short term as a tourist, but to really have a chance to understand the people and the culture. hopefully it might also provide the opportunity to learn the language at least somewhat (although, to be honest, that feels like a near impossible task to me most of the time).

Russia's an intriguing place. Infuriating at times (often?), but intriguing. I would highly suggest working hard on your Russian language skills before coming (at least you need to know how to read cyrillic).
Of course, there's no secret that Russian women are appealing as well!

i have a (tall, bald, white, american) long-time friend who has lived for several years in taiwan, going to graduate school there. he is a language freak, having taught himself dutch, mandarin, and some russian, german, etc. he is studying for a phd, geared toward teaching chinese to foreigners (in other words, he's not just in school learning chinese as a foreigner). he has been my main source of information regarding living/working overseas, plus he knows a lot of people from numerous countries who live in taiwan for various reasons. i went there for a couple of weeks back in february, to visit him and see how i handled being in a foreign country. i've heard too many stories about fast onsets of culture shock. obviously he was a big crutch for me, but he did let me fend for myself at times, and i did go out and about on my own too.

he thought i handled myself very well, which encouraged me to consider the possibility of living overseas. however, he and numerous other people (including russian expats) have told me russia might not be a good first place to go as an overseas experience. he's offered to help me in taipei, giving me a chance to try living in a "safe" country. (i must say, i never felt uncomfortable in taipei at all.) then if i liked it and wanted to, i could move on to a more "harsh" environment.

If you can manage to learn some of the language, keep your wits about you, and ask a ton of questions before taking off (as you are here), I can't see why you wouldn't be OK in Russia. Having realistic expectations, in my view, is the difference between a pleasant and unpleasant overseas experience.

the problem with that is what i'm really interested in is russia. i know taiwan could be a means to an end, but if i could cut out that step it would be nice. to be honest, i'd sort of feel guilty if i am in taiwan and not interested in their culture or learning the language or whatever. (although my guess would be i'd probably end up liking things about it.) maybe that's the best path to take to get me where i'd like to be? even going it alone (as compared to having my friend in taiwan) in some other "safe" place like the czech republic would feel like i'm closer to my goal.

My opinion: Get to a Russian city with fewer expats (basically any city nor Moscow or St Petersburg), make some local friends/contacts, build your skills (teaching and language), settle in...it's worked for me!
So, no: I don't think you have to do the Czech/Taiwan thing first.

related, i've also considered trying to find expat jobs in russia related to my current career. one russian expat said if i went to russian with an expat job then russia would seem like a fairy tale and i'd have a wonderful time, but if i actually had a local job i would hate it because i'd have to deal with all of the difficulties of the country. i do worry that if i lived there in an expat job environment i would be trapped in an expat bubble, and might never have the chance to really experience the people/culture. on the other hand, i might be able to use that as a safe way to step out, and if i liked it then jump in with both feet. of course, i'd have to find such an expat job first, and i don't think that's very easy. which leads me back to idea of teaching.

My experience with expats is that most are good for drinking and b & moaning about life/jobs in (insert country here). Naturally, some would become friends, and some good friends, so I'm not discounting having fellow expats around. However, I think that getting out of that "bubble "is an essential and rewarding part of living in the country.
Also, if you'd like to make contacts about jobs in your industry, local people would probably have more insight.
In the end, if you're going to work in your industry you'll probably need quite good Russian language skills.

i'm also curious about certifications. i've read enough to know certifications can't hurt, but i also know some places don't care about them (obviously such places wouldn't have the pay or perks of jobs based on experience and expertise.) i know i don't have a teaching background, so i don't know that having most of the certs available are going to help me much at all since i'm basically at level 0 anyway. i also don't feel like i could financially justify quitting my job to go to a celta course (which they have here in houston) before trying to get a job overseas (since i'm single and would thus have to continue paying all of my current obligations during that time). although perhaps if it would really make a big difference, i could work something out. it's also possible that even if it didn't help with a job, it might be good to take any tefl/tefol/whatever course just to get my brain working in those areas.

If you're just going to teach for a year or two while you look for jobs related to your industry and improve your Russian, then a cheaper TEFL course would probably be fine. You should be hired by a school that has a DOS who can help train you.
However, if you might want to make teaching a longer-term thing, I would suggest CELTA or Trinity.

is it possible that my engineering/i.t. background would actually be helpful in the efl environment? i'm not sure if any efl jobs might be related to engineering or i.t. vernacular (or need someone with a server-level i.t. background).

You might find that you can teach ESP (English for Specific Purposes) to companies or professionals who work in your field. In fact, this is a strong possibility now that I think about it.
Added to that, meeting people within those industries could help you make professional contacts for a possible future job.

i know i'm talking to a lot of people who teach as a profession -- a number of whom are in it for the long haul -- so i'm aware my (lack of) background denotes a "tourist" (that's what they called a lot of the short-term efl teachers in taiwan that are really just doing it for fun or adventure). and perhaps that's all i'd end up being. but i hope not. and i'm not coming in believing i should/will get a great job with great pay, or be respected as a teacher. if i choose to try teaching, the idea of "paying my dues" doesn't bother me. if i am being hired as a teacher, i want to be able to teach. and if i can't, i don't want to waste other people's time and money.

This paragraph alone tells me that you have a good attitude towards making a run at teaching. As a person who hires teachers, I would be happy to hire someone with your outlook (I'd still like to see some sort of certification, though).

let me finish by noting i am not a big risk taker, i'm not normally one to make major changes (or perhaps even minor ones) without serious amounts of thought and trepidation. so it might be easy for me to be talked out of any of this. (once i do make up my mind, however....) but i'm hoping i can find a way to do this and feel fairly comfortable about my decisions (or at least know i have a way out ).

The "thoughts and trepidation" may enable you to have more success overseas. There's nothing wrong with planning once, and then again, especially when dealing with Russia.
It is certainly a risk moving thousands of miles away from everything you know, and it will be difficult at times, surely--you might even regret it occasionally. However, there's a reason you're on this board asking these questions, isn't there?
Of course, easy for me to say, I've been doing this for a decade.
In the end, since you're analytical, you'll weigh the pros and cons and come up with what's right for you.

at this point i feel like there are a near infinite number of questions and possible paths, so i appreciate any level of guidance, suggestions, information, etc. any of y'all could provide me -- to either cut me off at the pass or get me moving in the right direction.

I say go for it.

Good luck!

[gondwana66]

Yep! Go for it. JP's on the ball.
I did 40hours online teacher training, got a job lined up in Toliatti, Samara, and lasted over four years rising to the top teacher of the school. Found plenty of extra work but above all made great life long friends including my wife and Russian daughter, PLUS, I was hopeless at learning Russian and after a while just didn't bother about it. When I tried to speak Russian they thought I could and spoke too much stuff for me, so I just spoke English and they loved it and went out of their way to help. 50% of the time I was the only foreign English teacher in the city so very little in the way of ex-pats.
Great people, great times.
I diarised my first year there and am right now posting it to a blog. It will give some insights to what is was like for a first timer.
Gondwana
http://pangaea901.wordpress.com/

[phliKtid]

hey jp, thanks very much for taking the time to read through my novel and respond to it. (i've continued with more questions to your response below.)

thanks very much for your response as well, gondwana, and the link to your blog. you say you were there 4+ years, but the dates on your blog are fairly current...i know you said you're just starting to put them up, and i can see you put month/day at the top of some of them, but not year. i'm just curious how long ago your beginning experience was, and how much things might have changed since then. i already read through every entry, and to be honest it did make me feel more comfortable about the prospect of going there as someone with little background in teaching (or russia in general). obviously it's possible for anyone to have a bad experience just based on chance or circumstances, but your story sounds reasonable and like things i could deal with. (i hope. :)

to follow up...

i'm glad none of the possible negatives i mentioned seem to be sticking points. as a follow-up possible negative, let me ask about my looks/style. i've been working in i.t. for a long time, and we have a lot of freedom to not be quite as business-like as some other fields. plus i ride motorcycles and own/drive old vehicles ('65 ford f-100 pickup, '55 chevy belair). i currently look like like a bit of a thug. (but i'm not at all, really.) i've got both of my ears pierced with gauge jewelry, as well as an eyebrow piercing, very short cropped hair, and a long goatee. i wear blue jeans and mechanic shirts or t-shirts (mostly black), large chunky boots and shoes, a long and heavy wallet chain, etc. i currently have no tattoos. (and in case you're getting concerned gondwana, i'm nowhere close to rory's personality. ;) obviously i could buy new clothes and clean myself up, but i kind of like how i am. what are the expectations on appearances and looks? (i did have an interesting experience in taiwan when a table of three germans sat by us and i was wearing a motorcycle jacket with an iron cross on it. it's a very common symbol in u.s. motorcycle culture, but out of that context we might have looked like the bad kind of skinheads.)

as i mentioned before, part of the reason i took the two-week trip to taiwan was just to see generally how i handled being in a completely foreign environment (since i never had before). i generally think i'm pretty level-headed and able to go with the flow, but i'd never experienced being in an utterly foreign/different land and culture. i thought i handled it pretty well, and my friend did too. i think my short-length experiences with a different culture in taiwan align fairly well with gondwana's blog entries. (other than the huge issue of having almost nothing written in a way i could even guess at what it might mean, one of the biggest odd/different things for me there was the style and use of toilets. but it all worked out eventually. :)

as far as money, it will be pretty easy for me to have no debt obligations at all here in the u.s. i am curious if anyone has any idea of what amount of money might need to be available in case things don't work out and one needs to bail. $3k? $10k? $50k? more?

having dated a russian expat, and being rather enamored with her style and personality, it would be disingenuous of me to not admit having the possibility of interacting with more women with similarities to her is a nice idea. but there's definitely more to my current considerations than that. she helped to ignite what had been smoldering for a long time: i have been intrigued by russia for years, i'm looking for a change in my life, russian culture seems very interesting, etc.

you mention getting into a city with fewer expats. i have a few questions related to that. i've lived in houston for 15 years now, which is a pretty large city, but i grew up in very rural central Texas. so i think i could handle either. houston is also pretty far south, and i'm a native Texan, so the idea of the winters kind of frighten me. i've never handled cold that well. (of course, i was also probably never very properly dressed for it.) if i found work in southern russia near the black sea or something the weather would probably align a lot more with what i'm used to. but do you think being outside of moscow or st. petersburg might limit my opportunities for finding i.t./tech-related work (whether as a teacher of specialized english for that or actual work-related)? how would i go about finding jobs related to teaching english with an i.t./tech bent? or would i just need to get to russia, start teaching, and then try to find that sort of thing?

perhaps related to that, i'm still trying to understand the hiring and training processes. i am currently thinking i will sign up for a fairly cheap online tefl course. while i don't think it'll really train me much at all, it should be a cheap way to get an idea of what knowledge i should have, what might be expected of me, etc. if that seems to go well, then perhaps i might sign up for a one week face-to-face course with a bit of classroom work. i can take a week off of work without a problem. my fear with jumping right into a celta course is that i'll basically need to quit my job to do it, and what if i don't pass it or i don't handle it well or something? it'd put me in a bit of a spot. this also may be my lack of understanding, but how do foreign celta courses work? as in, if i took a celta course in moscow, would i have a job afterward? what if i didn't pass it? as i've said, i don't mind getting less pay due to lack of experience...but i'd rather not have no job and no prospects in either russia *or* the u.s. :)

thanks again very much for any responses.

[gondwana66]

thanks very much for your response as well, gondwana, and the link to your blog. you say you were there 4+ years, but the dates on your blog are fairly current...

I was there from Nov 2004 to May 2009. I started posted relative to the dates but people got confused and thought the blog was old so now I post with current date. Still not sure how to satisfactorily remedy this issue. Anyway...

i currently look like like a bit of a thug. (but i'm not at all, really.) i've got both of my ears pierced with gauge jewelry, as well as an eyebrow piercing, very short cropped hair, and a long goatee. i wear blue jeans and mechanic shirts or t-shirts (mostly black), large chunky boots and shoes, a long and heavy wallet chain, etc. i currently have no tattoos. (and in case you're getting concerned gondwana, i'm nowhere close to rory's personality. ... motorcycle culture, but out of that context we might have looked like the bad kind of skinheads.)

Part of the reason why Rory was persecuted was because of his extreme tattoos. Basically he looked really different to Russian men who nearly all have short hair, not skinhead, and wear black in winter. They think people with tattoos have been in jail. There are young people with different looks but I tend to think they keep a lower profile because of the general conservative nature. Personally I prefered to blend in somehow and not attract unwanted attention, but that's just me. Rory, despite a few hassles, did fine.

one of the biggest odd/different things for me there was the style and use of toilets. but it all worked out eventually.

Toilets are normal except for some old flats where it's back to front! or old public conveniences which are squat style and putrid!!

f what amount of money might need to be available in case things don't work out and one needs to bail. $3k? $10k? $50k? more?

Have a return ticket at least. If things are serious the colour of money speaks loudly!!

i have been intrigued by russia for years, i'm looking for a change in my life, russian culture seems very interesting, etc.

It really is interesting and you'll meet plenty of great people

i've never handled cold that well.
My climate was sub-tropical but the cold is not that bad if you're dressed properl and in the buildings is usually about +25C. Summer can be very hot.

how would i go about finding jobs related to teaching english with an i.t./tech bent? or would i just need to get to russia, start teaching, and then try to find that sort of thing?
Check the internet for jobs and once there you'll find contacts to lead further into your speciality

Do some training at home at least so you have something to offer them. A CELTA course in Russia is not always a guarantee of work. I would line up definite work first.

Sochi would be a great area not only because of more temperate weather but the winter olympics are there soon and the place is busy preparing. I'm sure English will be in demand but may becoming competitive. Check it out anway.

[gondwana66]

thanks very much for your response as well, gondwana, and the link to your blog. you say you were there 4+ years, but the dates on your blog are fairly current...

I was there from Nov 2004 to May 2009. I started posted relative to the dates but people got confused and thought the blog was old so now I post with current date. Still not sure how to satisfactorily remedy this issue. Anyway...

i currently look like like a bit of a thug. (but i'm not at all, really.) i've got both of my ears pierced with gauge jewelry, as well as an eyebrow piercing, very short cropped hair, and a long goatee. i wear blue jeans and mechanic shirts or t-shirts (mostly black), large chunky boots and shoes, a long and heavy wallet chain, etc. i currently have no tattoos. (and in case you're getting concerned gondwana, i'm nowhere close to rory's personality. ... motorcycle culture, but out of that context we might have looked like the bad kind of skinheads.)

Part of the reason why Rory was persecuted was because of his extreme tattoos. Basically he looked really different to Russian men who nearly all have short hair, not skinhead, and wear black in winter. They think people with tattoos have been in jail. There are young people with different looks but I tend to think they keep a lower profile because of the general conservative nature. Personally I prefered to blend in somehow and not attract unwanted attention, but that's just me. Rory, despite a few hassles, did fine.

one of the biggest odd/different things for me there was the style and use of toilets. but it all worked out eventually.

Toilets are normal except for some old flats where it's back to front! or old public conveniences which are squat style and putrid!!

f what amount of money might need to be available in case things don't work out and one needs to bail. $3k? $10k? $50k? more?

Have a return ticket at least. If things are serious the colour of money speaks loudly!!

i have been intrigued by russia for years, i'm looking for a change in my life, russian culture seems very interesting, etc.

It really is interesting and you'll meet plenty of great people

i've never handled cold that well.
My climate was sub-tropical but the cold is not that bad if you're dressed properl and in the buildings is usually about +25C. Summer can be very hot.

how would i go about finding jobs related to teaching english with an i.t./tech bent? or would i just need to get to russia, start teaching, and then try to find that sort of thing?
Check the internet for jobs and once there you'll find contacts to lead further into your speciality

Do some training at home at least so you have something to offer them. A CELTA course in Russia is not always a guarantee of work. I would line up definite work first.

Sochi would be a great area not only because of more temperate weather but the winter olympics are there soon and the place is busy preparing. I'm sure English will be in demand but may becoming competitive. Check it out anway.

Gondwana
http://pangaea901.wordpress.com/

[spiral78]

I admit I haven't read the entire thread carefully, so if these two short points have already been addressed, forgive me.

First, expats can be a decent first step to establishing a local social network. Don't shun them altogether - they often end up connecting newbies to both the local scene and to locals (How I Met My Czech Mate - through a mutual expat friend ).

Second, depending on where you go, you might also think about getting certification in-country. There are some benefits, in that training centres usually provide some support system for at least the first month, like airport pickup and arranged housing. They normally do something like local orientation and definitely have good info regarding reputable employers.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

spiral,

I wrote the bit about the expat community. I didn't say they should be shunned altogether--in fact I feel the contrary; what I did say is that it's good to get out of the expat "bubble" and try to make local friends/contacts.

I agree with spiral that getting certification sort of "on-site" is a good idea.

[phliKtid]

thanks for the replies. i appreciate it. here are my follow-ups:

from spiral78: I admit I haven't read the entire thread carefully, so if these two short points have already been addressed, forgive me.

haha...i'm sure a lot of people might not be too interested in reading through all the stuff i'm asking about and writing. i appreciate you taking the time to offer advice. i replied in the below...

from gondwana66: I was there from Nov 2004 to May 2009. I started posted relative to the dates but people got confused and thought the blog was old so now I post with current date. Still not sure how to satisfactorily remedy this issue. Anyway...

most people might not care so much about what year it was, but i was curious. perhaps timestamp the entry itself with the current date (so it shows up in the blog urls and links as recent), but as a preface in the text of each entry state these are from a personal diary or whatever and was written on xx/xx/xxxx date? i noticed you'd done day and month on some, but not year.

from gondwana66: Part of the reason why Rory was persecuted was because of his extreme tattoos. Basically he looked really different to Russian men who nearly all have short hair, not skinhead, and wear black in winter. They think people with tattoos have been in jail. There are young people with different looks but I tend to think they keep a lower profile because of the general conservative nature. Personally I prefered to blend in somehow and not attract unwanted attention, but that's just me. Rory, despite a few hassles, did fine.

i just made note of that because in the entries you have up so far you've only mentioned him doing somewhat brash/crazy stuff and getting in some scraps. since it's possible some people might want to lump me into that kind of category because of my choice in culture/style, i just wanted to note that i'm not wild and crazy by any stretch. : ) from most descriptions i've heard of russian guys (including yours) it seems like i *might* be able to fit in alright. at least i have shorter hair and usually wear black/dark colors. : )

from gondwana66: Toilets are normal except for some old flats where it's back to front! or old public conveniences which are squat style and putrid!!

i'm having problems imagining what you mean by "back to front". the tank is not against the wall? you sit facing the wall? it's so mysterious! ; )

from gondwana66: My climate was sub-tropical but the cold is not that bad if you're dressed properl and in the buildings is usually about +25C. Summer can be very hot.

i grew up in central Texas, which is mostly crazy hot, but low humidity. for the last 15 years i've lived in houston, which is mostly crazy hot and high humidity. "winter" (yes, in quotes) lasts about 2 or 3 months and is intermittent at best. it rarely gets below freezing. it's snowed about 3 times in houston in the last 15 years. i grew up without a/c and am pretty comfortable with higher temps. i can't think in celsius at this point.

from gondwana66: Do some training at home at least so you have something to offer them. A CELTA course in Russia is not always a guarantee of work. I would line up definite work first.

from spiral78: depending on where you go, you might also think about getting certification in-country. There are some benefits, in that training centres usually provide some support system for at least the first month, like airport pickup and arranged housing. They normally do something like local orientation and definitely have good info regarding reputable employers.

from jpvanderwerf2001: I agree with spiral that getting certification sort of "on-site" is a good idea.

i'm hoping to be able to get some training without having to quit my job. although if i have already committed to moving there, spending the first few weeks getting training there might seem more reasonable. having work lined up in advance would definitely be preferable though. i don't have any idea what the market is like -- if it's pretty definite i could get trained there and land a job, i might feel okay doing that. but since i don't have a teaching background and am going in somewhat blind, i really don't want to give up everything to go over there, then sit there for months not being able to find work. i'm not that much of a risk-taker...or drifter. do you agree to work for a specific company and they train you? or you just go and train, and then try to find a job? or both options are available? (either way, i think i'm going to go ahead and sign up for an online course now just to get some experience and knowledge beforehand.)

from gondwana66: Sochi would be a great area not only because of more temperate weather but the winter olympics are there soon and the place is busy preparing. I'm sure English will be in demand but may becoming competitive. Check it out anway.

actually, that's one of the areas i was thinking about looking. i think the climate might be a lot closer to what i'm used to (and prefer). i don't actually like the ocean much (or water at all really), but i'm used to very warm climates.

from spiral78: expats can be a decent first step to establishing a local social network. Don't shun them altogether - they often end up connecting newbies to both the local scene and to locals (How I Met My Czech Mate - through a mutual expat friend ).

i think that's a good point. they already know the place from an outsider perspective, and can possibly provide very pertinent advice and warnings. plus usually having an "in" into an already existing social circle is easier than starting from scratch. (especially if one isn't an extrovert or social butterfly...such as myself.) i just don't want to end up only spending my time with other ex-pats if i'm making the effort to move to another country because i want to experience it.

thanks again for y'all's responses.

[gondwana66]

Yeah, the tank is against the wall but there's a pan, with no water, that collects goodies and a hole where they go at the front. When I first saw it in Kiev I thought to face the wall but it didn't feel comfortable...but that's the real old style and I only had it once in Russia although public toilets can be worse.
I've got a photo somewhere so I'll dig it out and post it to my blog sometime.

Start doing some internet research and contact some companies to see what they offer then post some more questions to this forum because many of those here will have good uptodate knowledge of many companies you contact.

You'll love the Russian experience. It's fantastic and I'll be back as soon as I can.
Gondwana
http://pangaea901.wordpress.com/

[seikaiwa]

Interesting! Thanks!

[jpvanderwerf2001]

[johnhearst]

That's a long post.

[coledavis]

Short selective answer:

"i've never been a teacher, and have no educational background related to teaching... I'm also curious about certifications. i've read enough to know certifications can't hurt, but i also know some places don't care about them."
You should take the CELTA or Trinity CertTESOL, partly because Russian schools generally want it, but also because teaching English is a specialism and people who try to do it by 'just using the book' do themselves and their students little good.

"english is the only language i speak." You won't need Russian in the classroom; in fact it can be a disadvantage if you use it. Having said that, you should at least learn to read, so you can understand some signs and use a dictionary. And if you do learn some Russian, you may enjoy life more.

"i am 41 years old." Immaterial if you're flexible.

"i've never lived outside the u.s. ... let me finish by noting i am not a big risk taker, i'm not normally one to make major changes (or perhaps even minor ones) without serious amounts of thought."
Well this is more of a problem. Russia is very different from the west in general and does require considerable flexibility. And (if I'm wrong, colleagues, do disagree with me) Americans who aren't prepared to adapt often have a miserable time. Expect major changes to your lifestyle, especially as an English teacher doesn't have the salary to place themselves in a social cocoon.

"is it possible that my engineering/i.t. background would actually be helpful in the efl environment?"
It is possible. I found my computing knowledge handy, and you may get better paid work in engineering towns, mainly gas and oil, given the nature of the Russian economy.

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