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maotouying
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 119
Location: My Chair In China
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:26 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't put much stock into anything published by the SAFEA that purports to be official, regulatory, informative, or helpful.
This is an agency that hires people who cannot or will not answer the phone, reply to emails, or respond to faxes. If one does call this outfit and someone answers the phone, the person who answers the phone speaks limited English and is generally unable or unwilling to help. (I am referring to the Beijing main office).
If one visits the SAFEA office in his host town (if there is one in his host town) IN PERSON, he is likely to find someone asleep at a desk who speaks ONLY Chinese.
maotouying, having that book available is comforting until one realizes that the SAFEA is little more than a toothless, deaf, dumb, sleeping, farting dog.**
** Experiences may vary from location to location and person to person, but probably not. |
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maotouying
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 119
Location: My Chair In China
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Miles Smiles wrote: |
I wouldn't put much stock into anything published by the SAFEA that purports to be official, regulatory, informative, or helpful.
This is an agency that hires people who cannot or will not answer the phone, reply to emails, or respond to faxes. If one does call this outfit and someone answers the phone, the person who answers the phone speaks limited English and is generally unable or unwilling to help. (I am referring to the Beijing main office).
If one visits the SAFEA office in his host town (if there is one in his host town) IN PERSON, he is likely to find someone asleep at a desk who speaks ONLY Chinese.
maotouying, having that book available is comforting until one realizes that the SAFEA is little more than a toothless, deaf, dumb, sleeping, farting dog.**
** Experiences may vary from location to location and person to person, but probably not. |
Miles I don't know what your talking about. IT IS NOT ABOUT ANY BOOK. The link is very expressed about information that sums up many of the questions we get here. your DOGGING this helpful link is not fruitful to say the least. Sarcasm set aside. I find this link is very helpful if you PAGE DOWN and click the links under the word "2002 Regulations" much information there is very useful. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: |
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I stand corrected.
It is a web publication. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:07 am Post subject: |
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I agree the link is quite helpful. It contains more than just the SAFEA stuff.
| Quote: |
| If one visits the SAFEA office in his host town (if there is one in his host town) IN PERSON, he is likely to find someone asleep at a desk who speaks ONLY Chinese. |
Forgive me for taking this out of your context, but i've quoted you for the sake of newbies to the country that may not know locals that sleep after their lunch. Some sleep on their office desks and some even under. So, I would suggest visiting any office either before noon or after 2 pm.
On the topic of SAFEA, I too have had some quite disturbing experiences and not only ones and/or in one location. This organization seems to be serving anyone but foreign teachers in the country. I believe consulates have accumulated enough complaints against this organization and they'll soon act accordingly. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
I agree the link is quite helpful. It contains more than just the SAFEA stuff.
| Quote: |
| If one visits the SAFEA office in his host town (if there is one in his host town) IN PERSON, he is likely to find someone asleep at a desk who speaks ONLY Chinese. |
Forgive me for taking this out of your context, but i've quoted you for the sake of newbies to the country that may not know locals that sleep after their lunch. Some sleep on their office desks and some even under. So, I would suggest visiting any office either before noon or after 2 pm.
On the topic of SAFEA, I too have had some quite disturbing experiences and not only ones and/or in one location. This organization seems to be serving anyone but foreign teachers in the country. I believe consulates have accumulated enough complaints against this organization and they'll soon act accordingly. |
It's helpful if one believes that the SAFEA's mission is to help foreign experts. It is not helpful if (as in my case) my PUBLIC school had never even heard of it, despite the fact that the school's contracts were printed on SAFEA templates and bore the SAFEA cover sheet.
It is helpful if one's employer is not unscrupulous.
It is NOT helpful if one's employer is unscrupulous, is a pathological liar, and KNOWS that the SAFEA provides absolutely no support for the foreign expert.
The SAFEA is helpful if one happens to be working in heaven.
It is NOT helpful if one happens to be working in hell.
One will not find much information on the internet about FT's experiences with the SAFEA because the SAFEA, generally, does not respond to complaints. It does not respond to questions. It does not respond to foreigners.
It is true that Chinese take two- and three hour lunch breaks. That is normal. My experience with the local SAFEA office (after I had a not-so-pleasant experience with the Beijing office) occurred on two separate occasions, both at 10:00 in the morning. I suppose that the person whom I disturbed from her slumber was taking a post-breakfast siesta on each occasion.
Which consulates will be acting on complaints about the SAFEA? Foreign consulates in China or the Chinese consulates in foreign countries? When do you expect this to happen? What makes you think that anyone in a position of authority will address any problems existing within the SAFEA? What could possibly compel the SAFEA to act on foreign experts' complaints? What does it have to lose by NOT helping anyone? What can it gain by helping anyone?
PLEASE share your "quite disturbing experiences with the SAFEA". The only way that ANYONE can have ANY direct experience with the SAFEA is to be persistent to the point of harassment--- daily--- over the course of weeks. Is that how you approached the SAFEA? |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Miles Smiles wrote: |
| PLEASE share your "quite disturbing experiences with the SAFEA". The only way that ANYONE can have ANY direct experience with the SAFEA is to be persistent to the point of harassment--- daily--- over the course of weeks. Is that how you approached the SAFEA? |
I'd be interested to hear the positive experiences... since there's been none posted so far. That's rather telling in my book. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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The following link will take you to what is purportedly an official document from the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs. It sure looks official, and it was released in May of this year. It certainly reassures me that the good people at SAFEA are thinking about their country's foreign experts.
Feast your eyes!
The problem is that I am unsure just WHAT they're thinking.
http://tefl.chinajob.com/about_tefl_in_china/official_document_from_safea.html |
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xiao51
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: SAEFA GUIDE TEACH IN CHINA |
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Nonetheless, as a background, China Tesol Org is a recruiter / agent in Beijing, owned by an Australian who has been resident in China for a long time. This particular agency, as are many others in China, is rather infamous for its bait-and-switch, indirect fees, etc., etc. While the SAFEA guide may be accurate, nonetheless...
As for the reference to China TEFL whatever, is that not the infamous Frank Zhang's website? Perhaps the newbies around here might not be knowledgeable of Frank Zhang.
And as for Middle Kingdom, it is also the portal of a recruiting agency / placement agency / professional services firm. Many remember the infamous canard that Middle Kingdom foisted on unsuspecting FT's of the "requirements" of a psychological test "ordered" by SAFEA. Strange enough, however, this test was "hosted" on a site owned by the agency that runs Middle Kingdom.
China is often smoke-and-mirrors. |
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Tsuris
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Wasting My Life Away in China
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: SAEFA GUIDE TEACH IN CHINA |
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| xiao51 wrote: |
| Nonetheless, as a background, China Tesol Org is a recruiter / agent in Beijing, owned by an Australian who has been resident in China for a long time. This particular agency, as are many others in China, is rather infamous for its bait-and-switch, indirect fees, etc., etc. While the SAFEA guide may be accurate, nonetheless... |
Yes, owned by an unethical Australian and his Chinese wife.
They dupe unsuspecting foreign teachers by falsely referring to themselves as "official" and "government approved" and by filling up their website with useless copies of outdated but impressive-looking laws and regulations that have as much practical value as a Ouija board.
They have collected all these worthless laws and regulations and together with a bunch of half-truths and advertisements sell them to foreign teachers for $8.95, referring to it as an "Official Manual".
China-Tesol.com is a disgrace and the worst of the lot. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Many sites recruit and I don't think this one is an exception. What we, the teachers, should demonstrate is that how such unethical sites are liable for their practices. The internet is opened up to abuse and I believe it will be for many more years. What is good on the internet is that we can share so much. As long as we go pro about sharing any information, we may as well fix some of those half finished bridges that we have begun building 30 or so years ago to China.
Now, I appologize for quoting the whole 9 out of this thread, but I feel it all deserves some attention.
| Miles Smiles wrote: |
| igorG wrote: |
I agree the link is quite helpful. It contains more than just the SAFEA stuff.
| Quote: |
| If one visits the SAFEA office in his host town (if there is one in his host town) IN PERSON, he is likely to find someone asleep at a desk who speaks ONLY Chinese. |
Forgive me for taking this out of your context, but i've quoted you for the sake of newbies to the country that may not know locals that sleep after their lunch. Some sleep on their office desks and some even under. So, I would suggest visiting any office either before noon or after 2 pm.
On the topic of SAFEA, I too have had some quite disturbing experiences and not only ones and/or in one location. This organization seems to be serving anyone but foreign teachers in the country. I believe consulates have accumulated enough complaints against this organization and they'll soon act accordingly. |
It's helpful if one believes that the SAFEA's mission is to help foreign experts. It is not helpful if (as in my case) my PUBLIC school had never even heard of it, despite the fact that the school's contracts were printed on SAFEA templates and bore the SAFEA cover sheet.
It is helpful if one's employer is not unscrupulous.
It is NOT helpful if one's employer is unscrupulous, is a pathological liar, and KNOWS that the SAFEA provides absolutely no support for the foreign expert.
The SAFEA is helpful if one happens to be working in heaven.
It is NOT helpful if one happens to be working in hell.
One will not find much information on the internet about FT's experiences with the SAFEA because the SAFEA, generally, does not respond to complaints. It does not respond to questions. It does not respond to foreigners.
It is true that Chinese take two- and three hour lunch breaks. That is normal. My experience with the local SAFEA office (after I had a not-so-pleasant experience with the Beijing office) occurred on two separate occasions, both at 10:00 in the morning. I suppose that the person whom I disturbed from her slumber was taking a post-breakfast siesta on each occasion.
Which consulates will be acting on complaints about the SAFEA? Foreign consulates in China or the Chinese consulates in foreign countries? When do you expect this to happen? What makes you think that anyone in a position of authority will address any problems existing within the SAFEA? What could possibly compel the SAFEA to act on foreign experts' complaints? What does it have to lose by NOT helping anyone? What can it gain by helping anyone?
PLEASE share your "quite disturbing experiences with the SAFEA". The only way that ANYONE can have ANY direct experience with the SAFEA is to be persistent to the point of harassment--- daily--- over the course of weeks. Is that how you approached the SAFEA? |
I sadly have to agree with most of what you are saying there. In fact, it is troublesome how some if not many local employers disregard the SAFEA's regulations and their Foreign Expert Contract too. Why would one wonder then that they so easily disregard our professional needs too.
Now, as far as I know, the SAFEA is not a governmental institution. However, interestingly, the organization serves the local government, when them issued certificates are required for the foreign experts to obtain their work visas on mainland China. This means, at least to me, that the local employers should be licensed and answerable to, both, the SAFEA and the government which means that if the SAFEA doesn't follow up appropriately, the police station should. If we find neither cooperative, there are other governmental institutions on mainland China, aren't there?
With regards to our consulates on mainland China, they simply work for our governments, or at least I would like to think so. Many developed countries economies aren't performing well and their unemployment rates are not so satisfactory either. Sadly enough, it may not be in their best interest to have their consulates on mainland China hustle the locals for offering job and business opportunities. Then, China alone exports a reasonable number of students for abroad studies which takes some of the financially strapped western educational institutions out of the danger zone too. Needless to say that so many of us on mainland would probably be a burden for our economies as we'd apply for the social assistance there.
So, how does the SAFEA and the internet sites fit in? They sure promote this large industry on mainland China and offer a sense of regulations in effect. Their attempts may be percepted as helpful, or as either misleading or plain dishonest, but it really is up to us to prove their liabilities, isn't it?
As for my own experiences with the organization in case, I would say that they are dishonest, but even with a prove in my hand i am lost in the jungle. For the sake of the poster's question, I have emailed and called them many times. Once, after I finally got through, I was told they'd call my employer to their office which they'd never offered me. Once, I submitted a load of facts to prove an employer was dishonest and even acted against the local laws. Neither of my attempts was followed up by this organization and that in two different cities. I hope that answers your question there.
On the end, I don't want to be the devil's advocate but I believe we shoud keep on trying to look for ways how to convince the locals we are wroth it. If not, there still is the UN, isn't there?  |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| The SAFEA website is an advertisement to make us think we have some rights in this country. We don't. |
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