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zipper
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 237
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 Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| KaiFeng wrote: |
| Zipper, don't tell folks you're an English teacher. Do what I did and tell them you're a language consultant or trainer, and get business cards made that say this. Worked for me really well! |
Thanks KaiFeng. I will answer that way the next time the question is asked. I am focusing on changing my career, nonetheless. I think that there is a future in the solar energy field, so that is what I have been studying lately. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| zipper wrote: |
| I am very pessimistic about teaching English in Asia; particularly to older folks. I live in ChangHua County, and I just feel that people in this area are very apathetic or just not interested in learning English. I teach a couple of classes for Wells, and the way they have it set up is that students pay a lump sum and come in whenever they feel like it; and it seems that most are lackadaisical; the young females seem interested in studying with young foreign males than they are with older married ones like myself. Kids are kids, but they are not as curious or interested in studying with foreigners as they were 15 years ago. In a way, I feel shame or am very embarrassed to admit that I teach English for a living when any Taiwanese ask me about what I do, because I know that is the answer they expect to hear. Perhaps my aversion to teaching English stems, in part, from my experience in S. Korea. It was a kill joy. So, I am trying to find a way to make a living doing something else that will give me a sense of dignity again. I guess that this post is a rant. |
I totally know what you mean.
I have been in a major dilemma for several years, which has often made me quite depressed, because I want to live in Asia, but I don't want to teach English. It's a real dilemma because the only jobs which we can reliably find are teaching English. I am not joking when I say I would rather be a janitor (for less pay) than teach English. At least if I were a janitor, I could go home every night thinking "the building is now clean." I never get that satisfaction with teaching English.
The problem with English teaching is that I'm never given a positive evaluation on my work, I only hear when things go wrong, I never have a sense of "job well done," and the locals all know that we're living jokes. Seriously, when was the last time that ANY of us raised a student's English level by a significant amount? I am not only tired of my job, but also tired of being associated with other people who do this job!
The big problem is that although there are plenty of jobs doing things that aren't teaching English, they are extremely random and impossible to prepare for or anticipate. If you look at Tealit, Gaijinpot, etc. you'll see plenty of non-teaching jobs, but they're all hopelessly random things like "Vietnamese-speaking plant manager with five years of experience" or "Russian-speaking sales executive" or "French chef." How on earth do you prepare for another sector of the economy when the selection of jobs is so random and inconsistent?
I think that realistically, my best strategy is to worry about an APRC/permanent residency/renewable residency visa first (teaching the requisite number of years of English until I qualify), and then run my own business. When you look at Koreans in the US, many of them are doing this, so why can't I? They run dry cleaners, liquor stores, nail shops, convenience stores, etc. I think running one's own business is the most reliable way to survive over here without teaching -- nobody can fire you.
And for a long time, I thought "This is a paradox: I want permanent residency and don't want to teach English, but every East Asian country makes you wait at least five years for PR, during which you must be employed. Does that mean I have to teach English for five years?"
Then, the other day, I found out a fascinating new fact: Korea is allowing people who have lived there ONLY ONE YEAR to get an F-2-7 (not quite permanent residency, but close).
The Koreans apparently now use a point rubric -- you have to score 80/120 to get the F-2-7. Unfortunately, the rubric is so incredibly difficult, the vast majority of foreigners in Korea would never qualify. However, since I speak sizzling Korean (something that is worth 20 points), I might just be able to make it within the next two years -- I already have 49 points, and have figured out how to raise that score by 35 more points in about two years. The biggest obstacle will be getting a master's degree, but hey, a master's degree is only a minor obstacle compared to spending DECADES of my life teaching!
Even though Korea isn't my favorite Asian country, I might just be heading over there after my contract is up. Seriously, the prospect of holding an F-2-7 when I'm only 26 years old is EXTREMELY appealing. I'd use it to run my own business and not have to answer to another laoban or wonjangnim ever again! |
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zipper
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Even though Korea isn't my favorite Asian country, I might just be heading over there after my contract is up. Seriously, the prospect of holding an F-2-7 when I'm only 26 years old is EXTREMELY appealing. |
I am married to a Taiwanese, so that won't work for me.
| Quote: |
| I'd use it to run my own business and not have to answer to another laoban or wonjangnim ever again! |
The only thing that I can do while I am scrounging around teaching EFL for a living is to elect studying another field of work; something that allows me to live here in Taiwan, but involves traveling; however, living in Taiwan is not the only option. I guess selling something in the energy field maybe good for some people such as myself. It takes a bit of time and effort to understand the field, though. This is the advice I can only offer, because it is something that I am doing myself. That is, taking the time to study the field of energy, become knowledgeable with it, and combine my background engineering and teaching experience and presto; maybe we have a possible job selling renewable energy products. If you have time, it would be good to reflect on your inner strengths and interests and check out what kind of field you might want to enter.
You mentioned that Asians migrate to our homelands and employ themselves successfully. My opinion about that is that Asians such as the Koreans, Japanese and Chinese are well rooted in America (historically), and they have their own chamber of commerce, reps and senators in US Congress to help them with their needs and interests. We don�t have that kind of representation in Taiwan government; nor can AIT offer the resources to help out with businesses. There is an American Chamber of commerce in Taipei, but I don�t know what kind of help it could offer us. Although, there are expats here that run their own little busibans and others that hawk things on the streets or even run exports businesses, so I know that it is not impossible. We need to take time and study them and emulate their processes. For me, at my age, English isn�t doing it for me anymore. I feel shame about teaching English despite even getting a TESOL certificate recently. It gives me no dignity. My wife, who�s Taiwanese, makes more than me with teaching English, and she just doesn�t understand why I loath the EFL industry so much. Living in ChangHua County is no help, either.
Well Rooster, all I can say is that I bet there are other EFL teachers that share similar sentiments. As far as I am concerned, the EFL industry is really great for young teachers that want to experience traveling, exploring, networking, and learning a thing a two about another language and culture; sometimes it gets romantic and takes on a different dimension. Then again, there are older and seasoned people that just enjoy teaching EFL, but I am not one of them anymore.
Last edited by zipper on Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| zipper wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Even though Korea isn't my favorite Asian country, I might just be heading over there after my contract is up. Seriously, the prospect of holding an F-2-7 when I'm only 26 years old is EXTREMELY appealing. |
I am married to a Taiwanese, so that won't work for me.
| Quote: |
| I'd use it to run my own business and not have to answer to another laoban or wonjangnim ever again! |
The only thing that I can do while I am scrounging around teaching EFL for a living is to elect studying another field of work; something that allows me to live here in Taiwan, but involves traveling; however, living in Taiwan is not the only option. I guess selling something in the energy field maybe good for some people such as myself. It takes a bit of time and effort to understand the field, though. This is the advice I can only offer, because it is something that I am doing myself. That is, taking the time to study the field of energy, become knowledgeable with it, and combine my background engineering and teaching experience and presto; maybe we have a possible job selling renewable energy products. If you have time, it would be good to reflect on your inner strengths and interests and check out what kind of field you might want to enter. |
Yes, looking at one's own strengths and coming up with a good idea for self-employment, a business, etc. seems like a good idea. For me, that'll probably be programming language-learning products. I've spent years at various universities learning Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, and I've taken and passed courses in programming as well, so I think it's a natural fit to write language-learning software and try to sell it. If I'm living out in the middle of nowhere (I'm thinking the Korean countryside), it won't matter if my profit margins are razor thin...
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| You mentioned that Asians migrate to our homelands and employ themselves successfully. My opinion about that is that Asians such as the Koreans, Japanese and Chinese are well rooted in America (historically), and they have their own chamber of commerce, reps and senators in US Congress to help them with their needs and interests. We don�t have that kind of representation in Taiwan government; nor can AIT offer the resources to help out with businesses. There is an American Chamber of commerce in Taipei, but I don�t know what kind of help it could offer us. Although, there are expats here that run their own little busibans and others that hawk things on the streets or even run exports businesses, so I know that it is not impossible. We need to take time and study them and immolate |
I'm not sure I want to pour gasoline on myself and set myself on fire...
| Quote: |
| their processes. For me, at my age, English isn�t doing it for me anymore. I feel shame about teaching English despite even getting a TESOL certificate recently. It gives me no dignity. My wife, who�s Taiwanese, makes more than me with teaching English, and she just doesn�t understand why I loath the EFL industry so much. Living in ChangHua County is no help, either. |
It is true, the foreign community in Taiwan (and Korea, and Japan) is much, much smaller than the Asian community in the US, and there is less "critical mass" here that we can take advantage of. For a Korean, Taiwanese, etc. wanting to move to the US, there are books written on the subject, lots of local contacts, etc., agencies, immigration lawyers, etc. We have to be more enterprising and pioneering than they do if we want to achieve the same things, unfortunately. However, the legal framework does exist, at least in theory, to allow us to do the same things they do (although the legal and cultural barriers for success in their countries are certainly higher than the barriers to them succeeding in our countries). You have an APRC, right? That's a huge asset right there.
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| Well Rooster, all I can say is that I bet there are other EFL teachers that share similar sentiments. |
I'm sure there are. Quite frankly, I'm really surprised there isn't a "Dave's Get Out of ESL Teaching Cafe" for those who decide they want to stay but do other work. Perhaps this should be my pet project?
| Quote: |
| As far as I am concerned, the EFL industry is really great for young teachers that want to experience traveling, exploring, networking, and learning a thing a two about another language and culture; sometimes it gets romantic and takes on a different dimension. Then again, there are older and seasoned people that just enjoy teaching EFL, but I am not one of them anymore. |
Well, I'm quite young (23), but teacher just isn't the right job for me. I'm not extroverted. I'm not a people person. I have spent the majority of my life dreaming of becoming a programmer, and EFL is not fulfilling that dream. And I could tolerate a sector of the economy besides programming if it were FULFILLING, but teaching English isn't -- the kids never learn. I'm not getting much better at this job, either, honestly, despite becoming CELTA certified, despite having entered my second official year as an ARC-carrying English teacher, and despite having an additional 80 hours of training via Hess last year. I think my skills would be better utilized elsewhere in the economy, but I want to stay in Asia. |
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zipper
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| I'm not sure I want to pour gasoline on myself and set myself on fire... |
You are quick. I caught that, but not quick enough apparently. Damn spell check! 
Your generation know a lot about computers. Unfortunately, my generation didn't have them in school. I saw my first computer in college back in 1982. It was an IBM 64K. |
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robertokun
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Rooster, why do you want PR in a random Asian country so much in the first place? You'll go to a country you don't even like, and to be frank, doesn't like you, because you can jump through a bunch of hoops to get enough points, etc. etc. to go live out in the middle of nowhere where it won't matter if your profit margins are razor thin . . . You come off as confused and immature in your posts here. Have you given some thought about going home and doing some programming or whatever you're into if you're not cut out for teaching?
Sorry to continue the hijack, as I don't know what a fair price for privates in Taiwan is . . . |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| robertokun wrote: |
| Sorry to continue the hijack, as I don't know what a fair price for privates in Taiwan is . . . |
Umm... Don't worry about that, everyone has unanimously agreed to hijack it, so it doesn't matter...
| Quote: |
| Rooster, why do you want PR in a random Asian country so much in the first place? You'll go to a country you don't even like, and to be frank, doesn't like you, because you can jump through a bunch of hoops to get enough points, etc. etc. to go live out in the middle of nowhere where it won't matter if your profit margins are razor thin . . . You come off as confused and immature in your posts here. Have you given some thought about going home and doing some programming or whatever you're into if you're not cut out for teaching? |
Hmmm...
I think I should reply by saying that if we sat down, talked about it, I drew you charts and diagrams of my future goals, life ambitions, philosophies, etc. for five hours or so, you would understand my logic, but it is going to be very difficult for you to understand just by piecing together random posts on Dave's ESL Cafe, or having me try to explain my rationale in a 30-second soundbyte.
In fact, even if I spent five hours explaining the rationale to you, you still might not understand -- I grew up in East Asia due to my dad's job and therefore have a far deeper connection to the region than the vast majority of English teachers will ever have. Therefore, what you might think of as a shallow and stupid reason for doing something might, for me, be a very deep and personal reason. Do you realize that my first memories in this life are of South Korea? That I first attended school in Korea? That I went all the way through middle school in Hong Kong? That I graduated from Yonsei University KLI in South Korea? I believe that I have a much deeper connection to East Asia (particularly Korea) than most English teachers, and even if I make a few disparaging remarks about Korea or East Asia in my posts, I have lived nine years on this continent, and East Asia is an indelible part of my soul, not just some year-long, liquor-soaked frat party. Yes, I am willing to jump through hoops and work hard and sacrifice to stay here -- unlike most EFLers.
If you really want to spend several hours listening to me explain to you what I value in life and why, I'd be happy to schedule some Skype time with you. However, I'm doubting you have that kind of time in your schedule, so why don't we just not interact about this subject?
Suffice to say, I lived in Korea for five years and speak the language basically fluently. If I move back there, I know full well what I'm getting into, and I wouldn't be talking about doing it unless I had some very compelling reasons (some of which no one on Dave's has ever bothered to ask about). |
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zipper
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| robertokun wrote: |
| Sorry to continue the hijack, as I don't know what a fair price for privates in Taiwan is . . . |
Oh dear me.  I think that it's my fault. I sincerely apologize. It was just the spur of the moment thing...I'll be more careful and subject related next time...  |
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beenthere96-2005
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 79
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: Opinion of English Teachers in Taiwan |
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I know what you mean. The Taiwanese never really had much respect for "English Teachers," in my opinion. They are hard workers and let's face it, many of us are not.
But I sure enjoy the cleanliness, if nothing else, back home.
I think a German newspaper summed it up years ago with their description of the country which I am not going repeat.
So it's great to study and work hard - but working that hard to live in a country like Taiwan, just wouldn't be worth it. |
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