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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Dear spiral78,
I wonder how many gays you know that you don't know are gay. No way to tell, of course, but it's likely there are a few, at least. So, is it just the overt behavior that you find "creepy" or is it the orientation itself?
Regards,
John |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| also have been told that this or that Saudi male is pretty/beautiful/etc.... |
Women and girls routinely remark on the beauty of other women - it does not usually imply any sexual feelings towards them. I of course know that in macho Anglo-Saxon cultures men are often terrified of acknowledging that any other man might be physically attractive (because that would be 'gay') but other cultures don't have such a hang-up about this, and men can remark on another man's good looks without feeling it impugns on their sexuality. So it seems you are imposing your own cultural baggage on your students. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Cleo, possibly. But when it's accompanied by the rush to sit (closely) together and the guys are constantly in each other's company, it's probably more.
No, truly, I don't care about sexual orientation. One of my siblings was homosexual from the onset: I grew up with this understanding, and truly accept it as a natural aspect of different people's makeup. Sure, I know people who acknowledge that they are gay and others whom I'm probably not aware of, but so what?
No, the distinction for me is the question whether, with Saudi men, if it's to do with restricted access to women outside their immediate families, and whether these restrictions may add to the attraction of their own sex. It likely works both ways, if it exists at all.
In any case, truly something I've given a total of five minutes' thought to. It's not a problem - perhaps I shouldn't have mused upon the topic at all! |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleo, possibly. But when it's accompanied by the rush to sit (closely) together and the guys are constantly in each other's company, it's probably more. |
It's possibly more, not probably more. And even if it is, so what?
| Quote: |
| No, the distinction for me is the question whether, with Saudi men, if it's to do with restricted access to women outside their immediate families, and whether these restrictions may add to the attraction of their own sex. It likely works both ways, if it exists at all. |
Well, there's no doubt that when you have almost no access to the opposite sex, you are more likely - out of desperation, curiosity, whatever - to seek solace whereever it is available, so to speak. Gossip suggests a lot of such activity goes on in Saudi Arabia, among both men and women. The extent to which it is prevalent is, however, anyone's guess. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Dear spiral78,
In a "prison environment" (and, at least with regard to the restrictions to sexuality, I think it's fair to say that Saudi has many characteristics similar to prisons) encourage "situational sexuality."
"Situational sexual behavior is sexual behavior of a kind that is different from what is usual for that person (or from what that person normally exhibits) due to a social environment that permits, encourages, or compels those acts.
For example, people might not have sex with prostitutes in their home countries, but may do so when they visit other countries, where such activities are legal or ignored by authorities.
Other examples are people in prison, the military, single sex boarding schools, or other gender-segregated communities, where members of those communities might engage in homosexual behaviors but identify as heterosexual otherwise."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_sexual_behavior
Regards,
John |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone's guess. I agree, and honestly don't care more than that. I promise I'm not harboring any massive angst on the issue! Just midly curious on occasion 
It's like contemplating the mores of a very foreign culture...and how they might affect my current students (one of whom seems totally addicted to Red Bull, hopefully not due to sexual repression and hopefully overcomeable!) |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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johnslat, that's exactly what I wonder. Would it really be a natural choice for those particular individuals or is it (and to what degree is it) influenced by situation?
Although, if I think of it, to be influenced by situation is also a natural occurence, and equally not condemnable (and I wasn't seeking anything to condemn to begin with). |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat, that's exactly what I wonder. Would it really be a natural choice for those particular individuals or is it (and to what degree is it) influenced by situation? |
What's "natural"? We're all conditioned by our upbringing and society. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Oy, Oy, Oy!
We're beating a dead horse here!!!
I think that we've lost sight of the WHOLE subject matter!!!
Namely:
Is Machita cute or not?
NCTBA |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
Oy, Oy, Oy!
We're beating a dead horse here!!!
I think that we've lost sight of the WHOLE subject matter!!!
Namely:
Is Machita cute or not?
NCTBA |
All YOUNG people are cute! |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Can I see her picture?
NCTBA |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
Can I see her picture?
NCTBA |
Let it go man! Let it go....  |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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awe! What's there not to love???? |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cmp45,
If you're in the Kingdom, you need to get out fast. If you're not, well, de gustibus non est disputandum.
Regards,
John |
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