Job Discussion Forums

[reality]

I have been searching for a new Teaching job, and couldn�t help noticing
Teaching Salaries for many Countries are lower than two years ago.

The Countries I especially noticed, have been Thailand (Same salary levels as 1996), China (A decline since the year 2000), Saudi Arabia
(The same level as 2000), Indonesia (Same level as 1998), Cambodia
, Japan and Vietnam (Same level as 1996).

Living costs rise everywhere, so Why aren�t salaries increasing at least with rising living costs.

[Glenski]

[Roger]

I don't agree at all with the claim that salaries in China havbe been stagnant since 2000. As a generalisation, this is blatantly wrong.
True, if you were making 100 RMB an hour at a tutorial centre, they will most likely still pay you 100 RMB. Others have come on the bandwagon of late though, and many offer more than that.
And as for salaries, I have not been watching the annual progress since 2000, but again the claim sounds to me to be at odds with reality. In 2000, I hardly ever heard of salaries being higher than 5000. Nowadays, they offer 8000 RMB.
It is true, on the other hand, that many public institutions still pay 3000 to 4000 RMB, not much of an increase over my first salary after the devaluation years ago.
I also want to add the interesting fact that China has been experiencing deflation for quite some time. In my case, travelling outlays have been significantly lowered.
A bus ticket from GUangzhou to Hong Kong used to cost 180 HK dollars; now it is down to 100!
Or the Guangzhou to Shenzhen aircon bus trip has come down to 55 RMB from aprevious high of 65!
Buying imported groceries is getting cheaper and cheaper, owing to the falling import duties!

[gecko]

As far as Thailand is concerned, they were affected by the '97 economic crash so the salaries could go any higher for a year or so, the the schools realised that they didn't need to put the salaries up because there are many people that are willing to sacrifice money for the fun of living in Thailand. The economy is getting stronger every year, it just means that the schools there are making even more money.

[taiwan boy]

In Taiwan salaries have been stagnant for about a decade or so. I think it basically relates to supply and demand. Ten years ago not many people knew about opportunities to teach and make money in places like Taiwan. Going there was a really adventurous thing to do. Now every second person (well not quite, but...) is going overseas to teach English somewhere.

These days it is very easy to get access to information via the internet (e.g. Dave's ESL Cafe ) so anybody who is prepared to spend a few hours researching on the 'net can find out everything they need to know.

[Stephen Jones]

Saudi salaries have stayed the same in cash terms since 1980, and obviously are much lower in real terms.

This is true for Saudis as well. The GNP per capita in Saudi is now around $6,500, or less than a third of what it was in the eighties.

In many countries in the Far East the salaries "collapsed" in dollar terms because of the economc crisis. This was certainly true of Thailand and Indonesia.

The Japanese economy has been in recession since the 80's, and the Hong Kong economy since the 90's.

On the other hand, as far as I can tell, Korean and Taiwanese salaries are holding up well and other countries such as Laos and Vietnam have come on to the market.

[itslatedoors]

Salaries are getting lower because the market is now more competitive.There are more schools out there,margins are lower and salaries have become the victim of this environment.There is also a glut of teachers/backpackers in many countries.





there

[Ben Round de Bloc]

I teach at a state university in Mexico. My salary has slightly more than tripled during the 7+ years I've been at the same job from 18 pesos/hour to 57 pesos/hour.

However, during these 7 years the cost of almost everything has risen greatly. Some examples:

City bus fare: half a peso to 4 pesos
Movie: 9 pesos to 48 pesos
Rent: 600 pesos/mo. to 2,200 pesos/mo. for similar housing
Taxi: 10 pesos (to anywhere in the city) to 50 pesos
Cheap meal: 9 pesos to 25-30 pesos
Bottled gas: 50 pesos to 170 pesos per tank
Bottled drinking water: 4 pesos to 15 pesos

The only thing I can think of that has gone way down in price = rate per hour to use computers in internet cafes.

[D.O.S.]

There are more people looking
for work and wages are falling.
The internet makes people
feel 'safer' than ever before
because they can email mummy
every night. And the TEFL
certificate industry keeps
churning out the grads with
unrealistic promises and dreams.
It's only when these new people
get ill and find out there is no
one to help and/or they get
cheated by a school and/or
criticised by spoiled brat students
who don't care about learning and/
or finally find out that their new host
nations simply will not let them do
anything except teach and/or they
get older and are no longer as
attractive to the 'babes' as when
they first came that they
leave or just give up, accept it,
and sink in.

[KeithB]

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnn!!!!!!

Salaries for most people are rock-bottom and going down.

But for people in certain geographic areas and with certain abilities, a lot of money can still be made.

[Roger]

Salaries in China are NOT going down, far from it!
Well, some will say they can only go upward seeing as they do that pay here is low compared to first-world standards.
Still, I have never had reason to be unhappy.
Over the past few days I have been looking at kindi jobs that pay 8000 a month, for a workload of a grand total of 22 hours a week (up to 44 periods).

a couple of years back, jobs like these paid 6000.

The difficulty for Chinese employers is to find suitably capable and dedicated teachers.
They do find opportunists, and they tend themselves to be opportunistic - like seeks like.
But the good kindergartens don't settle just for any white, black or brown face - they want to see interaction and social harmony in the classroom!
That's why backpackers are left in the rain! (There are plenty of "adult" oral classes waiting for them).

[Stephen Jones]

Dear Kvido,
Nobody "owns" ideas, which is why the rest of the world refuses to follow the US stance on software patents. What you own under copytright law is the expression of the idea.

Now most terms of usage for sites have a clause where you accept that anything posted to the forum may be used by the site. There would be massive legal diffictulties over quoting a message or archiving something, or using a mirror site, otherwise.

Admittedly Dave does seem to have borrowed his terms of service from the Fraulein Whiplash ("Ve Vill let you breathe ze air after you have filled inze right forms in triplicate") type of intellectual property lawyer, but I wouldn't take things so much to heart.

[richard ame]

Hi
I would say in response to this thread that anyone who has lived in a place for more than 5 years can see that not only salaries are either going down or not keeping up with the rising cost of living ,but on top of that "packages" that were the norm seem these days to be the exception .
Not so long ago a standard "package" would include a flight ticket home , rent free or subsidsed accomodation,a mid day meal, sometimes an evening one as well, a bonus scheme on top of a Christmas bonus,various other perks, such as health or life insurance ,some places still provide low interest loans for car purchase, my current employer does not give anything apart from the monthly salary and a daily meal ,forget the rest oh yes and the salary is NOT a foreign currency,how they expect to retain existing staff and recruit the 20 plus they need for next year is beyond me ,but not doubt they will suckers are born every minute and go and work in the E.F.L. industry and get screwed because they don't know their worth and accept the bare minimum,most private instuitions can easily afford to pay more but as we don't have the power or the balls to stand together and demand a standard minimum wage the same nonesense will go on .

[cam]

As long as Canada and South Africa continue to produce university graduates with little or few qualifications to find jobs in thier countries the wages will continue to go down in Taiwan and perhaps in some other parts of Asia. When I first arrived in Taiwan in 1996 there were plenty of jobs and little competition. Now with economic problems on the island over the past couple of years and an influx of young eager beavers the wages for many ESL positions have declined. I know of few schools were wages have increased. It is a question of supply and demand. When the supply outnumbers the demand then the organization can pay less for a teacher and increase thier profits. Teachers need to ask for pay increases after working at a school for a year. Do not sign another contract for the same wages. Teachers need to ask for more benefits such as airfare, housing, and bonuses. The less teachers accept the less they will get in an overcrowded market.

[Roger]

I, and I am sure hundreds of others, must take umbrage at your rude and totally uncalled-for swipe at Canadians and South Africans. These countries are not the only ones that produce surplus academics. In any case, it is better to hire academics from these countries than unqualified and complacent backpackers too lazy to learn either a trade or a second tongue!