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isitts
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Is CELTA really worth it for me? |
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| krista08 wrote: |
Hi guys,
I have been looking through a lot of the posts and been doing a bit of research but now I seem to be more confused than before.
I am 22 years old from Vancouver B.C and will be graduating in August with a BA in International Studies. I really want to go abroad and teach English for a year or two (either in Asia -China, Japan, Korea, or Thailand or in Africa- open to anywhere really as long as there is a market, and its safe). I have been considering taking the CELTA course in Vancouver in September but I am wondering if it is really worth the $2500 investment. I can take Oxford Seminars for $1000 but have not read too many good things about the course on here. It seems as if the market is flooded, and one cannot expect much in the way of a job with my credentials. It is not important for me to save up a lot of money while I am abroad as I don't have any debts or commitments at home, but I do need to be able to sustain myself.. (don't need to go out every day of the week- but like to go out every once in awhile, to a pub, movie, out for dinner etc.) I don't need to live in Tokyo or Seoul, but I do want to live in a city where I can meet other people, and where there are things to do..so living in some rural farmland town would be definitely out of the question for me. Lastly, I only plan to teach English for a year or two, but I also want to keep my options open, in the case that I really love it and decide to extend my time abroad.
Any thoughts/help would be appreciated!!
Thank you
Krista |
The countries you're looking at, you don't need a CELTA (or a TEFL certificate for that matter). Especially if you're only teaching a year or two. That's a bit tongue-in-cheek. Those courses are helpful.
I took a TEFL course and I'm glad it wasn't the CELTA course. Too expensive for what it is, IMO, but it is well-known, so you can't go wrong with it.
Justin gave some good advice on what to look for in a good TEFL course. I think some things I would add for you to look for are:
- 4 week course , think 120 hours is the norm. Mine was 135.
- practicum teaching actual EFL/ESL students, not other trainees.
- assistance in finding a job (I didn't use this feature. I'd contacted a recruiter and got hired in Taiwan before my course was finished...of course my being hired was pending completion of the TEFL course).
Jeff Mohammed wrote a book called "Teaching English Overseas: A Guide for American's & Canadians". A little old now, but it's still gives incredibly useful advice. And it does tell what to look for in a TEFL school. Jeff was an advocate of the CELTA, but he also lists others as well.
I'd check out that book. about US$15-20. Here's a link to Amaon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Teaching-English-Overseas-Americans-Canadians/dp/0967706203
If it's at all useful to know, I taught two years in Japan in the JET Program, which got my feet wet, then took the TEFL course. It actually made the course a lot easier (relatively speaking, because it's not an easy course). Plus, once I got the certificate, my resume said TEFL plus two years teaching experience. The latter speaks louder than the name of your TEFL certification because most of teaching is learn by doing. Again these TEFL courses are helpful, but they don't magically make you a good teacher. You get what you put into it.
Not saying this was the best way of doing it. Japan would have been a lot less frustrating if I'd had training first. But on the other hand, it was very helpful to have in-class experience to draw upon when I was taking the TEFL course.
Anyway, good luck! |
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Iceman33
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| laconic wrote: |
The very worst teacher I have ever known has a CELTA.
The very best teacher I have ever encountered has no teaching certificate of any kind. |
No big surprise to me. That's not to say that I think schools shouldn't have standards -- not at all. But, every teacher should be looked at on a case-by-case basis with a multidude of criteria, and not automatically hired because of having a certain certificate or degree. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| What criteria would you propose, if not basic qualifications? |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Iceman33 wrote: |
| laconic wrote: |
The very worst teacher I have ever known has a CELTA.
The very best teacher I have ever encountered has no teaching certificate of any kind. |
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Can it be? Another very-best-teacher-ever-with-absolutely-no-qualifications? How many does that make now? I can't tell if this is the same wonderfully talented teacher being described in all these threads, or if there are hordes of them roaming school hallways in Russia and China and Mexico and everywhere in between. (But seriously: if they are really that good, they ought to be in their classrooms teaching, not roaming the hallways.)  |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| AGoodStory wrote: |
| Iceman33 wrote: |
| laconic wrote: |
The very worst teacher I have ever known has a CELTA.
The very best teacher I have ever encountered has no teaching certificate of any kind. |
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Can it be? Another very-best-teacher-ever-with-absolutely-no-qualifications? How many does that make now? I can't tell if this is the same wonderfully talented teacher being described in all these threads, or if there are hordes of them roaming school hallways in Russia and China and Mexico and everywhere in between. (But seriously: if they are really that good, they ought to be in their classrooms teaching, not roaming the hallways.) |
Cute comment, AGS! Why is it that these anecdotes are usually posted by those with no or dubious qualifications themselves? |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| I was recently looking for a dentist - terrible toothache, made me very cranky. Anyway, I went to this really highly qualified guy. All my friends recommended him. Best dentist they ever encountered. He's really nice, great bedside manner. I felt good. I think I became a whole person due to visits to his clinic. Trouble is some people say he's not really qualified. But I don't think that is fair. I mean he took an on-line dentistry course! He worked very hard on it too. Yes, it is true that he only did a weekend of practical training with other people who are not accredited by any official body, but I believe that if I were going to be a dentist then I wouldn't want to be judged by some self-appointed clique of conservatives. There are lots of criteria which they ignore, like a winning smile, eye colour, life experience and sense of humour. My dentist is the best ever - he extracted two teeth where a boringly qualified dentist would only have removed one. Twice as good by my reckoning! |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| There are lots of criteria which they ignore, like a winning smile, eye colour, life experience and sense of humour. My dentist is the best ever - he extracted two teeth where a boringly qualified dentist would only have removed one. Twice as good by my reckoning! |
Last edited by AGoodStory on Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| To be fair, Laconic's quote was excerpted from a post that was much more balanced than it would seem from those two lines. I don't think he was making the case for teaching without training. And, if I remember correctly from another thread, Iceman has an MA in applied linguistics to which he added an on-line course. My main point of disagreement with Iceman is on the importance of supervised teaching practice. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, all that you have written is very true, and fair. However, my previous jocular remarks are not directed at any one person - just the general attitude that I see time and time again from newbie applicants hoping to convince me to give them a job with similar malarkey.
Their hopes are always dashed. |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I'm still laughing at those "previous jocular remarks." Not that this could conceivably be considered off-topic, but my former husband was a dentist. (A very good dentist, but, of course, he did take the on-site training course with supervised practice.) |
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Iceman33
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Yes, all that you have written is very true, and fair. However, my previous jocular remarks are not directed at any one person - just the general attitude that I see time and time again from newbie applicants hoping to convince me to give them a job with similar malarkey.
Their hopes are always dashed. |
Countries vary in training and qualifications in various fields, which is also the case with TESOL. Folks with just Celtas cannot teach in American universities, just like some folks with MA's in TESOL cannot teach in some language schools in Western Europe. This means, then, that what makes a TESOL instructor qualified is debatable, as is the case with many other fields.
Strict qualifications are not as essential for a TESOL instructor as for a dentist or a heart surgeon since you can't kill or injure someone if you aren't that qualified. Even poor standards for translators can lead to a failed business contract or even a war. That's not saying that theren't should be standards in TESOL.
Interestingly and unfortunately, translators in the US aren't even required to a have license, but you need one to massage someone's back. Go figure!
Well, Sasha, you won't have to worry about me bothering you for a "newbie" job and then dashing my hopes. LOL.
Take care |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Iceman, I was in the middle of replying to your very funny comment about so many lousy dentists with good qualifications, but I must have dreamed it! Whether I imagined it, or not, I do appreciate your good humor. |
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Iceman33
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| AGoodStory wrote: |
| Iceman, I was in the middle of replying to your very funny comment about so many lousy dentists with good qualifications, but I must have dreamed it! Whether I imagined it, or not, I do appreciate your good humor. |
Sorry, it's back up again. So, no, you weren't dreaming.
It's true: there are a lot of very bad dentists with good qualifications. My poor sister knows that firsthand after having had a botched root canal, during which she was on the verge of fainting on several occasions. The dentist who redid it said that she (the dentist) was a real "QUACK".
I'm light-hearted and am not angry with anyone for having a different opinion. Hey, it's forum after all!
Peace |
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AdrianG4
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Harbin, China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| I was recently looking for a dentist - terrible toothache, made me very cranky. Anyway, I went to this really highly qualified guy. All my friends recommended him. Best dentist they ever encountered. He's really nice, great bedside manner. I felt good. I think I became a whole person due to visits to his clinic. Trouble is some people say he's not really qualified. But I don't think that is fair. I mean he took an on-line dentistry course! He worked very hard on it too. Yes, it is true that he only did a weekend of practical training with other people who are not accredited by any official body, but I believe that if I were going to be a dentist then I wouldn't want to be judged by some self-appointed clique of conservatives. There are lots of criteria which they ignore, like a winning smile, eye colour, life experience and sense of humour. My dentist is the best ever - he extracted two teeth where a boringly qualified dentist would only have removed one. Twice as good by my reckoning! |
Your job is simply and I do repeat, simply teaching your native language -- get over yourself.
If you find that understanding and teaching your mother tongue (you should have been finished with basic English grammar since you were about 8, maybe 9 years-old,) matches the level of complexity of pulling out ones teeth, then -- well .. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Day in, day out, day after day...I meet people who think/thought that the English teaching is simply a matter of knowing English grammar. Which, as a native, you may have had down since age 8. Heck, there are plenty of non-native teachers out there who have known all the grammar anybody needs for a number of decades.
I meet these teachers week in, week out, they speak the language, they know the grammar. They KNOW English. Know more English grammar than I ever hope to, frankly. Some have PhDs. Some have teaching licenses, related MAs, B Eds, you name it, I have met teachers who have got it.
How do I meet these people? THis constant parade of language teachers, of English teachers and other language teachers who already know all the grammar anyone could possibly need for the language they teach?
They pay me. That's how I meet them. They pay me. Sometimes their bosses pay me. Sometimes their schools pay me. Sometimes the ministries of education of their various countries pay me. Heck, sometimes the US state department or NGOs that support education pay me.
They pay me to help them learn how to teach. Not to learn English- they already know English. To learn how to teach.
This has been going on for years. I'm making a nice living at it.
English teachers don't just have to know English. They have to know how to teach. If only knowing English counted, there would be no market incentives to have teacher training- and there are plenty of incentives. The best jobs, most money, most benefits, best conditions, seem to go, nine times out of ten, to the more qualified teachers.
For what it's worth, I agree with Iceman that
| Quote: |
But, every teacher should be looked at on a case-by-case basis with a multidude of criteria, and not automatically hired because of having a certain certificate or degree.
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except for the typo.
But I don't know anyplace that automatically hires anybody with a certain degree or certificate.
I do know a lot of places that require a certain minimum level of training, though. And they only look at teachers that meet those requirements on a case by case basis. Those who don't, don't get any further.
This isn't true for all jobs- heck, some places just a white face and a passport from and English-speaking country is enough. But the jobs that people are really hoping to get, more and more, want well qualified teachers.
Pardon the rant,
Justin |
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