Job Discussion Forums

extradross · Joined: 23 Apr 2010 Posts: 81

If you move from the 'backpacking ESL' mentality to 'long-term employment security overseas' then undoubtedly heading back home to get that teaching license/spending a couple of years working as a teacher in your own country is the move you should be looking to make. Unfortunately, for those of us in our 40's now this is a daunting proposition-even if the country of origin [for me the UK] is crying out for teachers-anybody made that 'leap' as it were? I mean gone back home in their 30's/40's having had a few years experience overseas in order to get professionally qualified?

Fishy · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 138

Getting a PGCE will seriously enhance your earning potential, choice of jobs and career development.

A PGCE is a British qualification, obtained from a British university. Bule_boy, I'm not commenting on your qualification as I don't know where you are from or what it is but it probably isn't a PGCE equivilant in the eyes of Indonesian schools from what you are saying. Also a PGCE is not a long boring drag as you suggest. It is a very tough course where over the course of a year you have to prove you meet the standards to become a teacher in the UK, and receive some excellent training and workshops. This is highly regarded by Indonesian employers.

If you get a PGCE from a UK university, you are looking at minimum 20m per month as a salary and can earn 30+ from some of the new international schools (previously nat+.) I know this from personal experience and friends and contacts. If you want to work in one of the more established international schools you will also need ninimum two years experience in your own country and great refernces.

A PGCE will make you a better teacher! Further training and qualifications help yu develop and indeed will help you when/if you go back home some day.

Last year at work we were sent many CVs from prospective teachers. It actually was not easy to find properly qualified teachers among the many language mill teachers' CVs, all of which were disregarded.

It really depends why you are doing this. If you are a backpacker, with no qualifications, stick to language mills. If you care about young people and make a positive impact on their lives and drive standards in education, get properly qualified.

bule_boy69 · Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 158 Location: Jakarta

chezal · Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 146

MrMrLuckyKhan · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:27 pm Post subject:

Fishy · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 138

[quote="bule_boy69"]

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

nice posts fishy. even better is that you speak from experience. u were a language mill teacher and decided teaching was the thing for u. so u did in right and spend a year in the UK getting your PGCE. now u are back and doing great. u are miles ahead of where u would be and your students definately benefit from it. great to see someone on this board so passionate about teaching and discrimanating on choosing proper teachers.

Bule_Gila · Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:02 am Post subject:

I have been reading the posts here and would like to make a suggestion and ask a question.

If you are an ESL teacher and you are having trouble finding a job in Indonesia, I would suggest looking at other parts of the country for work. A lot of teachers look to Jakarta, Surabaya, Bali, etc and the markets in these major areas for ESL teachers is fierce. If you look to smaller cities, you should have no problem finding a job. You may not have the complete western lifestyle, as found in major areas, but you will find that, in most cases, the facilities are enoguh to suffice. I currently work in Samarinda. There are approximately 3 major ESL schools here and a heaping handful of smaller ESL schools as well. I work for one of these major schools and another expat works for the local EF and that is it! There are no other expat teachers here, thus the schools bend over backwards to cater to qualified expat ESL teachers here.

I have a question I would like to ask here. Some people say it is ok to teach on the side, to support your income, others say it is illegal. Is it possible to side teach without breaking any laws? Also, if your contract does not stipulate that you are not allowed to side teach, can you side teach without fear of getting terminated, since there is no breach of contract?

Thanks

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

u are asking 2 different questions........... one about the law and the second about your contract with the school.

1. the law forbids u from working for anyone but the sponsor of your kitas, even with their permission. so no, u cant legally work on the side.

2. the second one depends on the school. some schools make an issue of it and some dont. if not mentioned as a specific reason for termination, they could not terminate u based on the contract. however, they could still use the law to terminate u. better to ask and see if they have an issue with it, some do and some dont. u are more liketly to get caught by your school than immigration. contracts in indo arent worth the paper they are written on. they coud fire you for any reason and if u sued them it would only take about 5 years for your lawsuit to go thru all the appeals processes and then u still wouldnt be able to collect damages.

kinda funny that u encourage people to work in the country and then ask about working on the side because your salary is not enough. in your area, none of those other language schools has enough money to hire expats. that's why it is only u and the teacher from EF.

Bule_Gila · Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:25 am Post subject:

@ TravelNTeach

1. First, its not two seperate or "different" questions I asked sine one is directly related to the other. It is a two part question, if you want to argue semantics my friend.

Thanks for the information regarding side teaching. I'll be sure to speak to the DOS here before I do anything.

2. Why do you make ASSUPTIONS?? Do you remember the old saying that goes "if you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME"?

The salary I get is 8 figures a month and is more than enough to support a single teacher. I am not a single teacher. I have a wife and two kids so the salary does not go as far as it would if I were single. Its enough to pay for the essentials with some luxuries but thats it. Besides, is there really such a thing as making enough money? Everyone wants to make more money, its our nature.

So what I am saying is that ESL teachers can come to this part of the country, and if they are single, can make a lot of money. I guess I should have been more specific with the details, as not to cause assumptions

bule_boy69 · Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 158 Location: Jakarta

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

hey bule gila, no need to live up to your nickname my friend.

i answered both of your questions, so why jump on me? in a 2 part question, the second question is directly related to the answer of the first question. this wasnt the case. u must have know this when u posted because u used "Also" which means in addition, or a second question. it was merely an observation, nothing for u to be so sensitive about my friend. while your dos may give u the school's blessing , that doesnt make u immune from immigration who could deport you if they find out. the chances that they would find out are slim, and they might not deport u even if they did.

now u are the one making assumptions my friend. u assume that all other newbies are single. also u incorrectly assume that EVERYONE wants to make more money. u are wrong. i dont. i routinely refuse side jobs and private tuitiion. i travel abroad 4 times a year, travel within indonesia, have a great place to live, my own transportation and everything that i want. i dont live on a budget but still save 1,500/month. i would rather spend my time at the gym, hanging with friends, dinner, anything rather than more work. my free time is much more valuable to me than the 50 dollars that i have been offered for private lessons. my philosophy is that if my first job doesnt pay me enough, then i need to get a new first job. if i need to get reskilled or further my education, such as a masters or PGCE, then this is what i must do.

i realize that most people are not in this position and that i am very fortunate. it took many years of struggling and working hard for me to reach where i am in career/life. not to make more assumptions, but are u new to this board and indonesia? lets not get into a flaming war. people come to this board to share experience, knowledge, and problems. they dont want to read 2 people bickering back and forth about inane issues/semantics. if u have an issue wth me, feel free to pm me. lets agree not to waste other peoples time with off topic diatribes. thanks my friend

Fishy · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 138

Can I please make it clear that I am not knocking language mill teachers. This is where I started and I loved the job. This was the most stress free, easy, enjoyable life (although a little boring at times with it.) And this forum is exactly the right place for language mill teachers. However that type of job is for people with a CELTA and a degree, not real school teachers.

I have a little problem with people working in this type of and then wanting to teach in Nat + or International schools simply for more money. If you want to be a teacher be prepared to learn, and learn formally.

Re: working on the side, I was offered lots of private tuition. I chose not to take it as wanted to enjoy my time outside work but would have no issues with teaching someone one-to-one at my home if I wanted to and don't see how anyone would even know.

bule_boy69 · Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 158 Location: Jakarta

extradross · Joined: 23 Apr 2010 Posts: 81

Let me make a few points with regard to this trained/certified teacher discussion. While taking the PGCSE route [for UK citizens] is the way to go with regards providing yourself with a degree of professionalism/awareness of teaching methodologies and practices and, of course enhancing your employable status-'doing' the course does not necessarily a 'good teacher make'! There are many lousy teachers in the UK education system [I can remember quite a few] who just don't give a toss about the student's education. Equally there are many 'unqualified' people who maybe have drifted into teaching through their wanderings-found that they have an aptitude for the profession and do an excellent job here. Would they benefit from the training?-sure but this option is not always open to them for various reasons. Fishy's belief that all those 'trained and certified people' are passionate and committed teachers, while the ex-language mill teacher who moves into a Nat+ setup is imply in it for the money seems a little judgmental to me....