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saturner28
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Illinois
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 Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: Unusual practice or usual practice??? |
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| I just had a job discussion on the phone with a company in Vietnam and some major red flags rose in my mind. The employer was offering a probationary position as a teacher with no work visa only a tourist visa. In addition, he offered no assistance with housing and unclear compensation. How typical is this and how risky is this? Has anyone experienced something similar? What advice do you have for me? Thanks. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know a thing about Vietnam, but I do know a thing or two about common sense! This sounds waaaaaayyyy wierd, no matter where it is. |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:37 am Post subject: WIERD OFFER |
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| I've been here 9 years. Give me names and places and I'll tell you if its normal or not. However, no details would ceryainly have me wondering and taking great care. |
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saturner28
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:49 am Post subject: To snollygoster... |
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| Thanks for your reply. I do not have the name of the school only the owner of them. I am looking for legitimate work in Vietnam as an EFL teacher. Any help you can give me would be much appreciated. I have applied to Apollo Education and sent many job inquiries to other companies so far. Thanks again. |
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ajc19810
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Pretty typical of language schools in vietnam. The lack of information i mean. It may have been someone they thought spoke eng well and not really anybody who has any real say in the school. There are good schools out there, find one you feel comfortable with. |
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Kornan DeKobb
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Let's see...probationary position, no work visa, no housing, I can't imagine he is paying airfare, don't know how much I am getting paid...
Where do I sign up?
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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WHAT TOWN/CITY are you talking about??
HCMC or Ha Noi....you SHOULD be safe with several backup options for employ (e.g. - other centers) should this mystery school deal go South!
Da Nang or Hai Phong....a little more iffy finding other teaching options if this school-of-little-information turns out to really suck!
Anywhere else - forget it.....there will be no plan B..... |
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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: you guys know more about this than I do |
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but I have been speaking to various folks, and it seems there are quite a few people working for cash using tourist visas. Point being, the situation described in the original post, while certainly not optimal, may in fact be part of the standard landscape.
I will also state, it looks to me that anyone who is truly qualified, (legally), has the door open for him. However, there are plenty of people who have the legal qualifications that are not really that "into it", so if you really can do the work AND are legally qualified, you will have no problem at all finding work. I do think they are trying to improve the overall quality of the teachers, and I think they should. |
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ptm234
Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| I also had the same experience. I had an interview in Vietnam and was told that I would have to start on a 3 month tourist visa and that would be probationary. And then would be granted a work permit. I didn't sign with the company as I wasn't sure either if these were normal practices. |
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deadlift
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:22 am Post subject: Re: you guys know more about this than I do |
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| Kornan DeKobb wrote: |
Let's see...probationary position, no work visa, no housing, I can't imagine he is paying airfare, don't know how much I am getting paid...
Where do I sign up? |
No kidding.
| mark_in_saigon wrote: |
| I will also state, it looks to me that anyone who is truly qualified, (legally), has the door open for him. However, there are plenty of people who have the legal qualifications that are not really that "into it", so if you really can do the work AND are legally qualified, you will have no problem at all finding work. |
Seconded.
I've met a few teachers around the place now. I have found that the ones that are qualified and experienced, and who clearly enjoy teaching and take their profession seriously, are generally very happy and in very good jobs.
The ones who complain about how rubbish the job-market here is, work multiple jobs that they hate, and get roped into dodgy work situations, are generally not well qualified, total noobs, or just plain weird. Some of them are clearly not interested in, or capable of, actually being teachers, but nonetheless seem to think they deserve high salaries and the royal treatment.
Sorry if I'm painting with too broad a brush, but that is the impression I've gotten so far.
EDIT:
To actually answer the OP's questions...
*Most good schools will be very clear about how much you can expect to be paid.
*Most schools will require a probationary period of about two or three months.
*Most good schools will be proactive about getting you off a tourist visa as soon as possible, though you certainly will need to work on a tourist visa at first. They will help you with visa extensions, and give you clear and accurate advice on how to go about getting a work permit. Very good schools will cover the costs of all this.
*Few schools offer much substantial help with accommodation.
Personally, there is no way I would have anything to do with the school you've been in contact with. |
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Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:23 am Post subject: Re: you guys know more about this than I do |
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| mark_in_saigon wrote: |
but I have been speaking to various folks, and it seems there are quite a few people working for cash using tourist visas. Point being, the situation described in the original post, while certainly not optimal, may in fact be part of the standard landscape.
I will also state, it looks to me that anyone who is truly qualified, (legally), has the door open for him. However, there are plenty of people who have the legal qualifications that are not really that "into it", so if you really can do the work AND are legally qualified, you will have no problem at all finding work. I do think they are trying to improve the overall quality of the teachers, and I think they should. |
So with experience, a BA, a CELTA and many other postgraduate credits, what kind of pay is available? |
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deadlift
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: |
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You should be able to get up around $2000 without too much trouble.
ILA starting wage: $17.25
RMIT casual wage: $32 |
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blateson
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: Re: you guys know more about this than I do |
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| deadlift wrote: |
| ...I have found that the ones that are qualified and experienced, and who clearly enjoy teaching and take their profession seriously, are generally very happy and in very good jobs. |
Not to burst anyone's bubble but ESL isn't real teaching, it's entertainment by a person who fills that position. In general it's goofy funtime stuff.
| deadlift wrote: |
| The ones who complain about how rubbish the job-market here is, work multiple jobs that they hate, and get roped into dodgy work situations, are generally not well qualified, total noobs, or just plain weird. Some of them are clearly not interested in, or capable of, actually being teachers, but nonetheless seem to think they deserve high salaries and the royal treatment. |
Your point about "dodgy" work sort of proves a point, there's plenty of opportunity for ESL schools to be, or end up being, dodgy. They can flip that switch on anytime they like.
Regarding weirdness, I was and have been under the impression that actually the guys who "excel" the most in the clown edutainment ESL business world tend to have a weirdness about them. Again, ESL isn't about being an actual teacher. |
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Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| deadlift wrote: |
You should be able to get up around $2000 without too much trouble.
ILA starting wage: $17.25
RMIT casual wage: $32 |
So are CleverLearn and VUS at the bottom?
Who else should I decline?
I'm thinking I should be worth at least $20 per hour here. |
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