Job Discussion Forums

[ramonthomas]

This is my first post on this forum, so hello everyone! I spent a lot of time reading and doing research about teaching English in Thailand on the excellent Stickman Bangkok website. Anyway I eventually emailed him to ask him the same question I'm posing here...

I'm from South Africa and a native English speaker. I have a post graduate degree (Computer Science related) and have moved into training from 2006 onwards running my own business. And I'm planning to do the TEFL course next month.

Anyway my predicament is that I'm mixed race person with strong Asian features in fact. So I'm not white and I'm not black. Stickman Bangkok was very specific that white people are preferred in Thailand because of the prestige it ads to the schools, etc. I just laughed every time he referred to Farangs After his comments I don't feel like I really "qualify" as a farang in the traditional sense.

You can view some photos of me on Flickr here and let me know what you think. Please me what you think I should keep in mind when applying for English teaching jobs in South East Asia. My preference is Thailand, China and South Korea.

[oxi]

Hi,

Nice to see someone willing to put their photo up!

I don't think there's a really big issue with race here in HK... but I know plenty of other posters here who disagree. Schools can prefer a white Caucasian face, but I like to think not so many.

If you don't mind me saying so, your photos look like you could possibly be taken for a Filipino or Indonesian. HKongers can be more prejudiced against these nationalities.

Qualifications are an issue. With no CELTA (or similar), there aren't any well paid jobs. I presume you already know that - so then there are plenty of low paid jobs...

Once you've got CELTA, still only a few jobs. The British Council say they want 2 years experience post CELTA - I know they have at least 3 South Africans teaching there, so they're a bit less snobbish about hiring non-Brits these days. They also hire Chinese, Indians, etc and don't have too many race issues. The best paid jobs, like EDB NET, require full teaching qualification such as PGCE/PGDE.

[Tammi]

The OP has probably made his decision already though I would like to post my impressions of being a Black person living in Hong Kong, in case it'll help another person with a similar question to the OP's.

Most local people that I've met have been warm and treated me very fairly. Many thought I was African, which is fine with me, but once I opened my mouth it was pretty clear I am American. It's interesting being in Hong Kong with so many various versions of English being spoken between the Australian, South African, Irish, and British people living here. At first, I worried my biggest problem with obtaining a position would be teaching British grammar. Yet when language centers began asking for a picture with my application I became worried about my skin color being the issue.

I did obtain a teaching position eventually and later again applied for a new post while in Hong Kong. At interviews, I was asked how would I handle any racial inquiries parents or students may have if I taught at their center or school. The word "inquiries" I believe is appropriate because I've been asked odd questions about my hair, my skin, and even about Africa (though sadly I haven't had the chance to visit the continent). I'm laidback about this stuff. For undergrad, I went to a college that was primarily White and had a very very similar experience, though I felt in America people my age should be more aware of other ethnicities living in their own country for centuries. In HK, I've found people are just interested in learning more about you and a different culture. Sometimes their English-speaking skills can make them sound more direct than tactful.

With dating and social life, I haven't had any more problems than the average single girl. I've seen Black guys with girlfriends of all colors, even outside of TST where there is a growing African population. For girls, we may be at a disadvantage because local guys for obvious reasons prefer someone who speaks their native language and expats come & go so much it's hard to establish something steady.

The biggest beef I have is with the HK customs officers who stop me every time I arrive at the HK airport. I know it's procedure to ask single passengers but I've seen White and Asian single passengers stroll by while I am stopped every single time (4) and even had my bags searched. It's really annoying especially after a 15 hour flight.

[Smoog]

I've found the level of racism here extreme and I'm white, so I can scarcely imagine how bad it would be for people of other colours. Like other gweilo, I find invariably the last seat to be taken on the mtr or bus is the one(s) next to me. Many a time will I see a local rush into the train as they are wont to do eagerly scanning for seats only to realise it would mean sitting next to a gweilo and opt to stand instead - until the next stop when someone else away from me gets up: then they pounce on that seat. I've also had others I've sat next to get up and move to another seat. Some on this forum may attempt to laugh it off and joke that this practise gives them more room but in the end it's a constant - and unpleasant - reminder that a great number of the overwheming majority here (Hk is 95% Chinese btw) resent you and think you inferior in some way. Can't speak for others but personally I don't like being told every day that I'm inferior.
Just yesterday on the mtr I noticed an Indian guy sitting with a seat on one side of him and two seats the other side empty. This was at 7.30am so the train was pretty packed: every other seat was full and many standing. I took up one of those empty seats. When I got off 3 stops later, the train was even more packed but the seat next to him on the other side was still empty (though someone had sat next to me). No-one took the seat I had occupied as I stood up. The Indian was quite well dressed too, so it wasn't a matter of not wanting to sit next to him because of him being unkempt or dirty - not that this is a concern for the locals when it's a fellow local. Last week a local got on wearing very filthy clothes and absolutely reeking. I was gagging from a row away, but it didn't stop other locals from opting to sit next to him.


I've also had experiences in restaurants where the staff all but refused to serve me. One place in tung Chung I sat down and waited while they served every local around me, including several who came in after me. I demanded to speak to the manager but they refused. It was only when the g/f of a friend of mine who happened to also be there asked on my behalf did the staff go get him. Uncoincidently, said g/f was Chinese. And she asked in English, so it wasn't a matter of them simply not being able to understand me. The manager just smirked when I told him of his staff's behaviour and walked away while I was still talking to him.
Near to my work is the best (and cheapest: $30 for a set lunch) Indian restaurant I've found in HK. I go there for lunch maybe once a week. I only discovered it 4 months ago and in all that time I've seen maybe 1/2 a dozen locals in there. The places around there selling local fare are packed solid with queues lined up in the sun waiting to get in but this isn't enough to entice them into an air-conditioned 1/2 empty restaurant right next door simply, I presume, because it's not run by the 'right' people or sell the 'right' food.

Once I took a class out to interview tourists at TST. An African family walked past. I pointed them out to one of my students who hadn't interviewed anyone and told him to go interview them. He looked horrified and whispered to me, "but they are black!", with the word black said in a way someone might say, 'leper'. I said to him, "they must be tourists then!" and dragged him over to interview them. He stood behind me the entire time and as soon as he had finished stammering his questions, ran as fast as possible as far as possible away from them. Not one other student went up to them after that, despite there being very few tourists to interview there due to the lousy weather.

Last year I had a local woman push in front of my partner's daughter on the esculator, hitting her head with her elbow. When I confronted her about it, she started yelling at me that 'this was her country not mine' (quite how this justified assaulting a 9 r old girl I don't know), for me 'to go home to my own country' and proceeded to swear at me in Cantonese, adding that I was stupid as I could only talk in one language (she was quite surprised when I replied back in kind).

A few years ago I bought a bed 2nd hand from someone up in the mid-levels. I arranged for a van run by Pakistani to pick it up for me. I was running late so ran up the esculators, getting there panting and competely soaked with sweat. The guard let me pass without a word, despite my very dishevelled appearance. I hung around in the lobby for 15 minutes waiting for the van (which, typically, was late), and not once did the guard want to know why I was there. Only when the Pakistani turned up did he leap into action, blocking the entrance and demanding to know why they were there. He spoke to (barked at is more appropriate) them in Chinese, despite having very competent English (I listened in on him chatting with one of the residents while I was waiting). Only when I went over and said they were with me did he relent and let them pass.

A friend of mine is Fijian and last time he was here with his family he was extremely upset and angry at how he and his family were treated. Locals on the mtr would openly stare and point at them, as well as moving away from them when they got on. It upset his wife so much she didn't want to leave the hotel room their last two days here. They found the service at nearly every place they went to extremely lousy but only towards them. He said it's quite possibly the last time he'll come here because of the way the locals treated his family. He said he was treated better when they were in Beijing.

[Perilla]