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mozzar
Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 339
Location: France
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 Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, yeah. But any job where you only need a month's training is bound to be low paid. The more training and qualifications you get the more opportunities. I've never heard of a plumber being qualified after a month or any other profession. TEFL teachers need to start thinking realistically about their job prospects and what it means to a professional. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mozzar wrote: |
| TEFL teachers need to start thinking realistically about their job prospects and what it means to a professional. |
Regretably, whatever illusions TEFLers may have about their status, to the vast majority of employers in the business, they are usually considered to be several grades below the secretarial staff, perhaps a grade or so above the cleaners, though don't ever count on the latter. And I am not just referring to hole-in-the-wall language schools either (try working for the British Council for a sustained assault upon your self-esteem!).
Even at the much-vaunted university level, TEFLers are still at the very bottom of the heap (both academically and remuneratively); generally designated as instructors with little chance of ever progressing through the academic ranks, regardless of qualifications, experience, or publishing record. Tertiary-level EFL 'centres' or departments are almost always regarded as non-academic support units, held in something very close to disdain by the university administration and 'real' academics teaching substantive subjects. At best they are tolerated as a necessary evil. Anyone who is in any doubt about this should take a glance at the salaries and benefits offered to teaching staff in other faculties and departments.
Perhaps something to think about before you invest your hard-earned cash in that MA TEFL. |
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the_thinker
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone who is in any doubt about this should take a glance at the salaries and benefits offered to teaching staff in other faculties and departments. |
Not true � all lecturers are on the same pay scale. OK, if you are in an ELT department you probably won't ever get to Professor grade, probably not even Principal Lecturer, but if you've published you're automatically Senior Lecturer and will be in the same pay grade as any Senior Lecturer elsewhere in the university.
Only time I can think this wouldn't be true would be if you worked for one of the more recently privatised departments. But in that case you're not actually working for the university. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| the_thinker wrote: |
Not true � all lecturers are on the same pay scale. |
I was not particularly referring to the few elusive posts available in the UK tertiary system. It is in universities outside the UK where the majority of TEFL jobs are. In Asia and the Middle East, rest assured that as a TEFLer it is extremely unlikely that you will hold the academic rank of lecturer. Generally, you will be an instructor in a 'language centre', on a salary which is considerably lower than that of lecturer, and with little opportunity to progress. Certainly there are exceptions, but I would suggest they are exactly that, exceptions.
I also accept the situation may be somewhat different in the UK, however not entirely so and perhaps not for much longer. As your post referenced, there is a disturbing trend to farm out the whole university EFL process to unpleasant private-sector contractors (the Kaplans et al), which will further ensure that terms and conditions of employment for TEFLers are reduced to the level of the Korean hogwan or Japanese eikewa. |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: Private companies promote lower pay. |
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| PattyFlipper wrote: |
| As your post referenced, there is a disturbing trend to farm out the whole university EFL process to unpleasant private-sector contractors (the Kaplans et al), which will further ensure that terms and conditions of employment for TEFLers are reduced to the level of the Korean hogwan or Japanese eikewa. |
The CEOs of some of these private companies like to trumpet how they will be paying teachers in their new language centres lower wages. Take the CEO of INTO university partnerships for example, who openly admits that rates of pay at his centres are "probably worse". Typically INTO pay their teachers less than �26K per annum, which works out at just over �13 per hour or less if you factor in extra duties like OT and occasional weekend obligations. No wonder many universities and their lecturers want no truck with INTO. Staff at Essex University voted overwhelmingly not to do business with them. Go here for the lowdown:
http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/press-releases/ucu-90-of-essex-university-staff-oppose-privatisation-plan-$1228183$364410.htm
Last edited by slapntickle on Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Do not do EFLing in Anglophonia. Lousy pay and terrible conditions. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Private companies promote lower pay. |
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| slapntickle wrote: |
The CEOs of some of these private companies like to trumpet how they will be paying teachers in their new language centres lower wages.................... No wonder many universities and their lecturers want no truck with INTO. Staff at Essex University voted overwhelmingly not to do business with them. |
The American-style 'corporatisation' of higher-education is in itself disturbing enough. Farming-out the provision of academic delivery to these for-profit cowboys is a further nail in the coffin for quality and standards.
Kudos to the staff at Essex University for taking a stand, and I sincerely hope the Vice-Chancellor will be forced into a reversal of his decision to become embroiled with the likes of INTO. Regrettably though, I see this as an indication of the path many universities will take in the future. EFL courses in particular are seen as fair game for privatization, due to the low regard in which the 'field' and its practitioners are generally held by mainstream academia. |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Private companies promote lower pay. |
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| PattyFlipper wrote: |
| The American-style 'corporatisation' of higher-education is in itself disturbing enough. Farming-out the provision of academic delivery to these for-profit cowboys is a further nail in the coffin for quality and standards. |
Yes, the future of British HE does indeed look grim. Many of our best teachers are fleeing the country in search of better-paid work overseas because trying to make it on an EFL-salary in the UK is well nigh impossible, especially if you're based in London where prices go through the roof. Privatisation of our universities is just going to aggravate an already dire situation. The UCU have published a report which gets to the heart of the matter. It's entitled: A UCU report on the new cross-party
consensus and the Americanisation of UK higher education. It can be found here:
http://www.ucu.org.uk/media/pdf/9/6/ucu_privatisingouruniversities_feb10.pdf |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Private companies promote lower pay. |
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| slapntickle wrote: |
| trying to make it on an EFL-salary in the UK is well nigh impossible |
What is this 'salary' of which you speak?
UK EFL is bollocks.
How much do you think region and the attendant politics plays a part? I look at some of the London wages described in this thread and I'm sick in my mouth... Is it the same across England, or are the low wages a symptom of a crowded London market? |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Private companies promote lower pay. |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| How much do you think region and the attendant politics plays a part? I look at some of the London wages described in this thread and I'm sick in my mouth... Is it the same across England, or are the low wages a symptom of a crowded London market? |
I don't think region or politics really plays a part. What plays a part is basic supply/demand economics. The fact of the matter is that schools are in the stronger position today because jobs are scarce, but there is a glut of teachers, which means that schools can charge the lowest rates possible because there is always someone out there who is desperate enough to take it. On two occasions this summer I've spoken to people in HR departments attached to universities, and they've told me that they were amazed at how many applicants responded to the job ads they posted for English teachers. We're talking here about 100s of applicants, many of them well-qualified, competing for one job . . . and the jobs were p/t, fixed contract positions! What a nightmare. |
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Mr. Bourenmouth
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Private companies promote lower pay. |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| UK EFL is bollocks. |
Yup. But thankfully UK EFL is getting what it deserves. People simply aren't working in it like they used to. I recently went back to work there in the summer, more or less for fun really and 50%, yes 50% of the teaching staff were non-native speakers. Polish, Russian and French. People are getting wise to EFL in the UK, it's on its last legs in its current, language school, form. |
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artemisia
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Slapntickle:
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| On two occasions this summer I've spoken to people in HR departments attached to universities, and they've told me that they were amazed at how many applicants responded to the job ads they posted for English teachers. We're talking here about 100s of applicants, many of them well-qualified, competing for one job . . . and the jobs were p/t, fixed contract positions! What a nightmare. |
Exactly. This is a problem faced increasingly by TEFL teachers just about everywhere. There are a number of reasons but mainly, I think, it's because of the sheer numbers doing or trying to do this as a job. Even in the Middle East these days, which is seen as some kind of mecca for money, teachers seem to be face increasing competition to get some not very good jobs. The situation has got to be worse for many teachers in the English speaking countries. I don't see this changing soon, if ever, so you're faced with decisions to make. You can stay permanently overseas until retirement and move around enough until you find a job that pays enough to save for that retirement, stay home and probably be poor or go back to uni and qualify as something else. Some also use skills and contacts to move sideways.
I think part of the issue for some is the ''employee'' mentality of seeking high wages and benefits coupled with needing - depending on where you go - to be an employee in order to get a work visa. On the continent in Europe, for example, with an EU passport and if you're serious about making a go of it, you're far better off acquiring local language skills and contacts and then setting up shop yourself or maybe with other teachers. Sometimes this does mean the language school circuit to begin with and you'd have to be willing to teach business English. I didn't do a lot of finding my own work while there because I knew I wasn't staying. It wasn't worth the effort required to make this my sole source of income but otherwise that's definitely what I'd have aimed for. I do feel a bit for TEFL teachers stuck somewhere they don't want to be especially if it's in some crummy language school. Most language schools are the pits and, IMO, it would be better to be working for yourself. You couldn't offer the same range as a school/ institiution, but could focus on a particular area. The working world has changed though many, myself included, still seem to be hard-wired to think like /be employees. |
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Mr. Bourenmouth
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| artemisia wrote: |
Slapntickle:
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| On two occasions this summer I've spoken to people in HR departments attached to universities, and they've told me that they were amazed at how many applicants responded to the job ads they posted for English teachers. We're talking here about 100s of applicants, many of them well-qualified, competing for one job . . . and the jobs were p/t, fixed contract positions! What a nightmare. |
Exactly. This is a problem faced increasingly by TEFL teachers just about everywhere. There are a number of reasons but mainly, I think, it's because of the sheer numbers doing or trying to do this as a job. Even in the Middle East these days, which is seen as some kind of mecca for money, teachers seem to be face increasing competition to get some not very good jobs. The situation has got to be worse for many teachers in the English speaking countries. I don't see this changing soon, if ever, so you're faced with decisions to make. You can stay permanently overseas until retirement and move around enough until you find a job that pays enough to save for that retirement, stay home and probably be poor or go back to uni and qualify as something else. Some also use skills and contacts to move sideways.
I think part of the issue for some is the ''employee'' mentality of seeking high wages and benefits coupled with needing - depending on where you go - to be an employee in order to get a work visa. On the continent in Europe, for example, with an EU passport and if you're serious about making a go of it, you're far better off acquiring local language skills and contacts and then setting up shop yourself or maybe with other teachers. Sometimes this does mean the language school circuit to begin with and you'd have to be willing to teach business English. I didn't do a lot of finding my own work while there because I knew I wasn't staying. It wasn't worth the effort required to make this my sole source of income but otherwise that's definitely what I'd have aimed for. I do feel a bit for TEFL teachers stuck somewhere they don't want to be especially if it's in some crummy language school. Most language schools are the pits and, IMO, it would be better to be working for yourself. You couldn't offer the same range as a school/ institiution, but could focus on a particular area. The working world has changed though many, myself included, still seem to be hard-wired to think like /be employees. |
This isn't my experience at all. Obviously I don't know the job you mention that was advertised, but I know that there was a summer programme I was on a couple of years ago and yes, there were hundreds of applicants (via TEFL.com - apply with a click) but 80% of those they followed up on had also applied for 73.5 other jobs as well.
In addition to this, a few of my current colleauges (in UAE) worked summer jobs in UK and found, like me, a good proportion of the TEFLA's to be foreigners, Polish mainly. I don't think this industry is pulling in the people it used to.
Last edited by Mr. Bourenmouth on Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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artemisia
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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One of the teachers I met on during the summer programme I was involved with was Polish. He was well-qualified with exceptional language skills and also an excellent teacher. Ditto for another met from Lithuania. I don't know how representative those teachers were but I thought these summer schools were lucky to attract people of that calibre (and myself naturally!  ). Of course they did so because schools shut down in their countries. They also wanted to spend time in an English speaking country though. |
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Mr. Bourenmouth
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| artemisia wrote: |
| One of the teachers I met on during the summer programme I was involved with was Polish. He was well-qualified with exceptional language skills and also an excellent teacher. Ditto for another met from Lithuania. I don't know how representative those teachers were but I thought these summer schools were lucky to attract people of that calibre (and myself naturally! ). Of course they did so because schools shut down in their countries. They also wanted to spend time in an English speaking country though. |
Well sure they were good, but they clearly wouldn't be a first choice from a marketing perspective. If I went to France to study French and found myself being taught by a Pole I would feel swizzed. Point is that these schools would hire native speakers if they could, but they clearly can't get quality teachers. |
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