Job Discussion Forums

[Yu]

I am planning to move to Shanghai in May of 2004, and I have several questions.

First, I will explain my situation. I am an American citizen. I am currently teaching ESL at a community college in the the US, and I will have 1 1/2 years of teaching experience by the time I get to China. I have a MA in TESOL, and I am working on a MA in Sociology. My husband is a Chinese national, and we have a son. He will be almost three when we go to China.

As a family, we have decided to go to China for several reasons. First, I would like to learn to speak Chinese and I want to have a better understanding of Chinese culture. Also, we want our son to learn Chinese. My husband did not really plan on staying in the US permanently, so he would like to have the chance to go to China and work. We realize that we will be making many changes to our lifestyle when we move to China, but we feel it will help us understand eachother better.

My questions are as follows:

1) Is May a good time to come to China? I mean in the sense that I am going to want to start teaching as soon as possible.

2) Will my teaching experience in the US be valued by Chinese employers?

3) Are internet courses popular in China? Should I take advantage of on-line training or Blackboard before coming to China?

4) What kind of daycare is avaliable for my son? I looked into International Schools, but they are totally out of out budget.

5) How much US money should we have to get us started in China... i.e. be able to live off of for a few months before we have jobs?

6) I think I should be able to qualify for something like a Chinese Green Card because I am the spouse of a Chinese citizen? Does anybody know how this works. I am thinking it would be useful to have the working visa on my own and not have to rely on the school because it seems that this is a problem for many.

7) Any reccommendations about schools to teach in at Shanghai?

Will the housing provided by the school be able to accomodate my husband and son?

I guess that is enough questions to get me started, but I am sure that I will have more.

[Roger]

A risky but potentially valuable plan!
Is May a good time to start scouring the labour market? It is not the best time as the public schools run until the end of June or even middle of July. End of August would be more ideal, but it does not mean you can't get a job. You will probably be a stand-in for a while.
In summer, various schools enrol students for private English and computer skill lessons. ALso a good time, but not ideal for long-term employment prospects.

Your experience? Well, the Chinese education system does not honour your skills or experience, it uses your western face to market English courses. Note how poor the English skills of Chinese with 5 and more years of continued teaching is!

Greencard?
Something like that is in the pipeline, but it is geared for expats that, like in the West, add skills or that invest in the local economy. I heard that Shanghai is a pioneering city in that it offers two-year visas for the right applicants.
I doubt that being married to a Chinese meets this criterion.
Marriage does not in any way enhance your residency rights. Many of us still have to renew our visa every year. Those on a business visa are in fact even worse off as they have to move out of mainland China every six months and return on a new business visa!

Daycare centre for your kid?
In the case of SHanghai, I would defer to someone else's opinion, but in general, your option is a Chinese kindergarten. In work in one of them, and pesonally, I find they are often quite well-run although I do not see eye to eye with their heavy teaching-load (five-year olds memorising English vocables, studying Chinese calligraphy, learning history and much else that had better be done at primary school level!). Most kindergartens are well-equipped and nicely decorated! They have berths for the kids to take an obligatory afternoon nap.
I just personally doubt if their early memorising-based lessons are very good for children this young! They don't seem to know the philosophy of Maria Montessory.

[Dragon]

Sounds like you got a good job already. Also, sounds like your husband is pressuring you to go to China. In my opinion, China is not a long term thing. If you have never been, it will seem fascinating at first. Then you will realize how much a hassle everything is from riding your bike in the rain to go to the food store 2 miles away, to the dirty air and dirty hospitals. If you are not Chinese and are married to one expect to be stared at and talked about both behind your back and in front of you.
It should only be looked at as 1-3 years of screwing off. Nothing more.
Dragon

[MyTurnNow]

Dragon's definitely right about precisely one thing: you will be stared at and talked about. We all are. Stare back.

Other than that, keep an open mind and don't get scared off. I often grumble about the very things Dragon mentions, but on the whole I LOVE it here! It isn't for everyone. It will require effort and being open to change. Major life-wrenching adjutments WILL be required. But if you are tough, strong, and dedicated enough you can thrive here. It CAN become a long-term home.

My biggest concern in your case is your child. Finding affordable, reliable child care here isn't easy. It may take some time and some mistakes along the way. Look for an American club in Shanghai...I'm sure they'll have at least one. Ask around and try to get some referrals there. Note that household and general safety isn't anything like what you're used to in the States, so you'll have to keep even more of an eagle-eye on Junior than you do back home. Also, forms of old-school discipline/punishment of children (spanking, slapping, verbal abuse, etc.) are still pretty common here. Make sure that anyone you hire to watch your child is CRYSTAL clear on your wishes in this regard, and then watch them closely...and local family in charge of your kids can be especially tough to deal with on this one.

Education can be even tougher to deal with. Chinese schools, even the "experimental" schools, are total nightmares from just about every possible standpoint. Don't even consider this option and don't let anyone (including your husband) talk you into it. Just don't go there. The international schools are indeed astronomically expensive and most often the quality is still miserable. I wish I could offer you a viable option. Best I can think of: befriend some college students and arrange home tutoring with textbooks shipped in from abroad. Supervise this entire process relentlessly. Perhaps you can find other families to cooperate with on this one.

Dragon was right on one other thing: hospitals here are completely disgraceful. Shanghai will have some foreign-type hospitals at foreign-type prices. Unless one of you is a businessperson, engineer, etc. working for a multi-national corporation your medical insurance will probably not cover them. Advice: buy MedEvac insurance (there are links somewhere on the US Embassy website) for emergencies and at the first sign of serious trouble, be on the next plane to Hong Kong.

Even routine medical care is highly variable. Some doctors here are excellent and some have had about as much job training as an oil-change technician down at Jiffy Lube. Shop around and think over the advice you are given. Get referrals from friends. English-Chinese medical dictionaries (available in bookstores here) are some of the smartest money you'll ever spend. An indicator: legislation has been recently enacted that will eventually require all doctors here to have university degrees and licenses in order to practice medicine in a state-run facility. Tell you anything??? You must keep this in context: given the size of the population, the average level of education, and the distribution of income the medical care system here, such as it is, is miraculous.

Again, I do love living here despite the rigors and the weirdness. The Chinese are an endlessly wonderful and fascinating people. You're OK if you can avoid The Five Bs as much as possible: Breakfast, Bathrooms, Bureaucracy, Bad medicine, and Bogus pop music.

Good Luck,
MT

[Roger]

MyTUrnNow makes valid points although some of her opinion is not quite accurate.
She says Chinese teachers often resort to physical punishments. Yes, this does happen, but only in the countryside.
I would be very, very surprised to learn it is happening in Shanghai or other big cities with urbane populations who know their rights!
WozzfromOzz, can you enlighten us here?

I think the problem is almost the opposite: Urbane CHinese pamper and spoil their single child to an extent you will not have seen before! Take a public bus - and see how little toddlers sit on a seat large enough to hold 4 toddler bums, while the mom or dad is standing, fussing over their progeny, mopping their sweaty forehead, feeding them and offering drinks all the time.
Or students: Some get pocket money that would pay the salaries of two gardeners or watchmen!

I think a kindergarten is alright for a Western child, but a primary school is torture!

[arioch36]

Roger is definitely on the money when he talks about children being too pampered. Personally, I believe spanking on the bottom to be quite fine, though more often in towns or Shanghai, parent s don't know how to parent, and will hit in anger on the head.
Chinese only children almost never see their parents, and treat their grandparents as coolies, much too often
I don't have that much against the average Chinese school accept that....when they start organized school they go to school at 6:00 in the morning and get home at 9:00 at night. (And the teachers are often too tired and underpaid)
Like was said, there are good and bad hospitals. In my experience, the good hospitals are often the teaching hospitals. Asked my FAO once, "which hospital should I go to?"
She said, "Oh, such and such hospital is fine."
I asked, " is that the hospital that you would take your child too if he was sick?"
"Oh, never! I would take hime too hospital X"

Go figure

[MyTurnNow]

Roger,
I wasn't talking about Chinese teachers doing corporal/abusive punishment. You're right on that one. I was talking about some Chinese parents, family members, and hired caregivers. I've seen and heard "discipline" things here that made my skin crawl. Although the spoiling extreme is about as bad.
MT

[Redfivestandingby]

"My Turn Now" also touched on another subject: your child. If I understand correctly your child is a product of you(Western woman) and a Chinese man. Therefore, according to the Chinese, your child is not Chinese. He is a 'half-breed'. This could be difficult for your child and you. Chinese define themselves through racial purity. Shanghai is more open than the rest of China so it should be better there.

Qualifications? You don't need any as long as you're white. That's what Roger referred to as "western face". It really means "white".

Good luck in China.

[pattyflipper no more]

I have a question, my turn now said to avoid the 5 b's. I just want to know what is wrong with breakfast???
thats all
Cody

[wOZfromOZ]

Guys & Ladies

Australia has had no form of corporal punishment in schools for neally 10 years now.

In urban China (15 % of the population) there is also an absence of corporal punishment

Normally,
for normal teen school misbehaviours IN SCHOOLS there will NOT be physical punishments.

but "Xiao nian guan jiao suo" ........ students in lower highschools who are too young to go to jail .... are sent to these special schools for young teenage criminals will get it and they wont forget it quickly.

........on another topic............

I've been fortunate enough to be the foreign English face at my little boy's kindie for the last 7 weeks. I've just been doing songs, games, crafts, and language for half an hour for their "da ban" .....the bigger kids
and I've been having a ball. They asked my wife if I could help and I said, "no worries" - Excellent experience ....It's the first time I've got away from the 'bigger kids' and I'm loving it!

Dont let anybody tell you these kids cant get violent though. I videotaped a recent 'little sports meet' and got this chubby little bloke giving another rather aggravitating young tike a clubbing left jab......brilliant! LOL ....decked him!

I sort of know now why Roger has had very satisfying teaching experiences doing this stuff.

(PS - I didn't ask to be paid but at the end of the month I was given the brown paper envelope ...for my wife .....LOL ...as a thankyou!!!)

cheers
wOZfromOZ