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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Moving for the sole reason of avoiding back payments is obviously a bit silly, but if someone wants to go to the effort, why not? It's not as if they are going to get into any legal trouble for doing so.
If someone is moving anyway, it's the perfect opportunity to sign up for NHI, so I would actually encourage people to sign up at that time as it makes a lot of sense- it worked for me, no back payments. |
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ginjoshu
Joined: 13 Sep 2010
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the information Glenski. I wasn't trying to avoid paying anything, though I will be moving back to the same area as before. |
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employee
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the info all. With regards to the pension I've read about, is this a requirement of all English teachers? If so how much? More or less I'm trying to figure out what my salary will end up being after rent, health insurance and this possible pension. Any more info is greatly appreciated. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Strictly speaking, pension is a requirement for all residents of Japan. Foreigners and Japanese alike find ways to avoid paying it, but that's not saying it's right. |
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Samurai
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 57
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, if you are a full-time teacher then you should be enrolled in shakai hoken (health insurance & pension) by your company (provided that your company employs 5 or more people). This is the law. Will your company do it? Probably not.
More or less I'm trying to figure out what my salary will end up being after rent, health insurance and this possible pension. Any more info is greatly appreciated.
Rent:
Probably between 50,000-60,000 yen. Dependent upon where you live. Will your company pay the key money & agent fee? If not you could be hit with 3 months payment up front. Find out what help your company provides with regards to your apartment.
Health Insurance:
Shakai hoken will cost you around 30,000 yen (includes health insurance & pension). Three years worth of pension payments can be claimed back when you leave Japan.
NHI (Kokumin kenko hoken) on its own will cost you around 20,000 yen. If you also "choose" to take the pension too (nenkin) it will come close to the cost of shakai hoken.
Private health insurance will cost around 6,000- 10,000 yen depending on what cover you take. Of course no pension is included. There are also restrictions on what you can claim for. You pay your medical bill up front and claim back from your insurance company...it can sometimes take a bit of time. Preexisting conditions are not covered.
Your company will ask you to choose one of the above...although, as I have already stated in a previous post, they are most likely to offer you the choice of 2 or 3. Why? Simply because these choices don't cost the company a penny...whilst choice one will cost the company 30,000 yen a month. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Samurai wrote: |
Rent:
Probably between 50,000-60,000 yen. Dependent upon where you live. |
Very dependent! You might pay 80,000, so I wouldn't say "probably" anything yet.
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| NHI (Kokumin kenko hoken) on its own will cost you around 20,000 yen. |
First year is closer to 2,000. After that it goes up tenfold to that figure. |
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employee
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| so theoretically I could just pay for private insurance and not have to pay the pension? |
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Bread
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| employee wrote: |
| so theoretically I could just pay for private insurance and not have to pay the pension? |
You could also just sign up for kokumin kenkou hoken and not sign up for the pension. I never signed up for it and nobody ever asked me to. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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The one time I signed myself up for KKH I was asked to proceed to the pension department and sign on for that too. As luck would have it that appeared to be on a completely different floor of the city hall, so I had a relatively easy getaway.  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| employee wrote: |
| so theoretically I could just pay for private insurance and not have to pay the pension? |
As mentioned, yes, but the question comes up -- why don't you want national health insurance or the pension plan?
If you leave in 3 years, you get most of the pension payments back.
If you change from private health insurance to national in a year or 2, you will have to make backpayments anyway. |
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employee
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:09 am Post subject: |
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@ Glenski
I'd rather not have to shell out that much a month for health and pension. Especially if I only get "most of it back". What happens to the pension if I stay longer than three years? Would it be safe to say that I'm looking at around 80,000 yen out of pocket for rent, health and pension each month then? I've already been quoted with 50-60k for the apartment. Thanks again for the input. |
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Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| What if one never joined the pension, but after 20 years wished he had and is shopping for a plan now? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| employee wrote: |
@ Glenski
I'd rather not have to shell out that much a month for health and pension. |
For health your first year, kokumin kenko hoken costs roughly 2000 yen/month. I don't really understand why you think that would be so expensive, considering just about anything could happen to you (sickness, traffic accident, earthquake), and it covers 70% of the costs. People often think they are immortal.
As others have mentioned (me, too), you could avoid the pension altogether.
Of course, if you get an honest reliable employer (one most of us would like, right?), you would have to pay more because you'd be given shakai hoken. At this point, let's not even talk about that because just getting a job here is difficult enough.
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| Especially if I only get "most of it back". |
By "most", read this link to see exactly how much.
http://www.sia.go.jp/e/pdf/english.pdf
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| What happens to the pension if I stay longer than three years? |
Read the link. You get the latest 3 years of contributions back. If you stay for 25 years (or less under Permanent Resident status), you get more back when you retire, of course. I'm figuring you would not be a lifer here, though.
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| Would it be safe to say that I'm looking at around 80,000 yen out of pocket for rent, health and pension each month then? |
No, perhaps that much for rent alone! Read on.
Rent can run 40K to 80K, depending on lots of circumstances. First year of kokumin insurance would add 2000 or so, and if you want to opt for the pension, that'd be more (roughly 14,000/month).
Second year of kokumin would be roughly 20,000. Shakai hoken from the very start would run about 30,000 (covering health and pension).
| Quote: |
| I've already been quoted with 50-60k for the apartment. |
Who quoted you that much for rent? Someone here who is giving a low-end price, or a potential employer? Rent can run 40,000-80,000 per month (plus utilities and phone). Those are very reasonable prices considering you'd probably pay the same back home. Many people tend to disregard that sort of thing.
All of the above is why I have told people for the past 13-14 years that on a basic paycheck of 250,000 yen/month, you can lose half of it to rent, utilities, insurance, and phone bills. Is that any real difference from where you live now? Where else can you get paid to be a teacher when the only qualifications are that you are a native speaker with a bachelor's degree in any major?
Let me ask you, employee, just how long do you figure you'll stay here? Many people stay 1-3 years, then leave, so they are eligible for the lump sum withdrawal of pension payments. However, many people plan for 1-3 years max, and then find out they enjoy staying, or get married to a local who won't move away, or they realize they can't return to their home country because they have such a gap in their previous employment record, etc. In such cases, they stay longer, and it is worth it to be on the health and pension plans.
| Sweetsee wrote: |
| What if one never joined the pension, but after 20 years wished he had and is shopping for a plan now? |
If you have acquired Permanent Resident status, you can backdate the starting point for pension by 20 years. Do that, and you only have to work another 5 years to start receiving your monthly pension payments. Of course, you get back only for the years you put in, so those 5 plus any other years you worked here.
If you didn't get PR (a silly thing after being here 10 years, but stranger things have happened), you can't backdate and have to work a continuous 25 years to be able to collect on the plan, assuming you are putting into it. Don't put in, and you can't collect. |
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yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| It is indeed kokumin kenko hoken. I was the one who complained that the yakusho wouldn't allow us until to sign up until we had our ARC in hand. |
If you're an employee, you should not be enrolled in Kokumin Kenko Hoken. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| yamanote senbei wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
| It is indeed kokumin kenko hoken. I was the one who complained that the yakusho wouldn't allow us until to sign up until we had our ARC in hand. |
If you're an employee, you should not be enrolled in Kokumin Kenko Hoken. |
Samurai already mentioned that in more detail back in September. |
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