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spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

- the CELTA or DELTA have no teaching value or purpose other than inflating the holders' egos

Depends on the person, for many people it is quite useful, for others it is an ego prop. Though, I've always thought that the cert is more just another thing they use to prop themselves up with and not the only thing.

This equating a CELTA with a DELTA demonstrates a very limited knowledge of certification and further qualifications in the field. A CELTA is very much a newbie level qualification, while a DELTA effectively counts as half a Master's degree to many reputable universities.

Further, it's clear that some posters on the thread have never taken a CELTA (or DELTA, obviously, since they think qualifications are unnecessary).

For those of us who've gone through the formal training, it's very clear that neither CELTA nor DELTA courses are designed to inflate egos or prop up anyone! On the contrary, they're quite tough on one's ego..... Shocked

Might be a good idea to get a bit better educated on the topic before giving advice to other newbies in the field.

Big Poppa Pump · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 167

You'll note that I'm not the one who made the original assertion that the Celta or the Delta inflates people's egos. I do make the distinction, based on my experience, that most... I did say most.. most teachers with who have the celta or delta found it quite useful and it shows in their classroom and staffroom performance.

There are others who are over-inflated windbags for which the certs merely add fuel to the fire.

You'll note that I haven't smeared either certification in anyway. The people with over-blown sense of self were that way before they were awarded their certificates and will probably be that way well into the future no matter what they do or what kind of bubblegum they chew.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

And in your personal experience as a teacher, certification and qualifications are.....? Fill in the blanks, please. Have they been useful to you?

Big Poppa Pump · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 167

In my personal experience qualifications and certifications are just about as useless as *beep* on a warthog in the specific environment I happen to work in. Which I said before and looks there you have it, I just said it again. Any stumbling dolt can do the job that is expected from the teachers at my school, they have a scripted curriculum provided and are expected to follow it.

I personally find the whole idea annoying and distasteful, but for right now my job pays the bills until I find something better within the management field as I'm a bit worn out on teaching at this time, have been for awhile. Thank god I don't have to do what they expect the poor buggers do in my school, I'd go insane within a week.

A certified teacher in a language school is a bit of a waste of talent in my opinion. Though, not all language schools are the same, some are quite good and really do benefit from properly trained and certified individuals. However, most are monkey see, monkey do.

I really do encourage teachers with Education Degrees to be very careful about taking a position in a language center, look to other organizations first if you can.

Isla Guapa · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject:

I have a few questions for you, BPP: What country are you teaching in at the moment? Have you ever taught in a language school in another country? Isn't it possible that in other places experience and degrees and certificates would come in handy and that you're just in one of those places where this is not the case?

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject:

Big Poppa Pump · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 167

Big Poppa Pump · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 167

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:46 am Post subject:

Ok, let's just recap:

- your school prefers newbies, a CELTA being acceptable so long as teacher is totally inexperienced and lacking in all creativity.

- unqualified teachers are best, but they must have a degree in something - just not teaching-related.

- but 'trained' teachers have massive egos and use qualifications as props and cause trouble, and so are not welcome.

- they are particularly restive when dealing with a snap observation from someone who is not a teacher but was somehow trained in lesson observations in-company.

Is this a fair summary of the school you work in BPP?

Sounds more like a management issue than a teacher one to me....

Big Poppa Pump · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 167

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject:

Let's blame the higher-uppers then. Yet I have to say that there seems to be quite a change in focus, looking at the earlier comments re teachers and their quals and the later ones. Quite a journey.

ancient_dweller · Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 415 Location: Woodland Bench

i guess nobody has seen the film 'dangerous minds' then?

johnslat · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject:

Dear ancient_dweller,

I don't quite get the relevance. LouAnne Johnson (the teacher upon whose experiences the movie "Dangerous Minds" was based) is an American writer, teacher and former United States Marine. She is best known for the book My Posse Don't Do Homework, which was adapted as the film Dangerous Minds in 1995.

Johnson grew up in Youngstown, Pennsylvania. After high school she enrolled at Indiana University of Pennsylvania, but dropped out after a few weeks and enlisted in the Navy, serving at Clark Air Base in the Phillipines. She wrote about her experience of the service in her 1986 book Making Waves: A Woman in This Man's Navy. She later transferred to the U.S. Marine Corps. On leaving the Marines she gained a masters degree in teaching English and, in 1989, went to teach at Carlmont High School in Belmont, California."

Are you saying it's relevant because she was qualified?

Anyway, the REALLY important fact is that she was a MARINE.

Semper Fi
John (USMC:1963 - 1967)