Job Discussion Forums

[rbc089]

Hi everyone. I'm new to this forum, and tefl in general, so I'm sorry if my questions have been asked hundreds of times before. I've also tried to search for answers, but for some reason the search function usually takes me to a blank page. Is anyone else aware of this problem, and how it can be solved?

Anyway, I recently graduated from University and obtained my Trinity CertTESOL qualification, so I'm looking to find work abroad as soon as possible. After weighing up my options I've decided to focus on China for my first teaching position, as it seems to offer everything I'm looking for as a new starter. Ideally I�d like to work in one of the larger cities, although I�m willing to consider other options. With regards to teaching, the experience I gained during my TESOL course was mostly with young adults, which I really enjoyed. However, I do have some tutoring experience, although not in efl, with young children. So I am flexible with regard to age.

I was just wondering what my chances are of landing a job at a university in one of the larger cities, considering that I�m only 21? The reason I want to aim for the universities is partly due to all the horror stories I�ve heard about the language schools. In addition, earning a high salary is not important to me, because I may not be in this for the long haul. I�d rather work in a reasonably supportive environment where the pay was low, but the hours were not too high. However, I realise that due to my age and experience, I cannot afford to be fussy.

Finally, I was just wondering how often people travel to China on a tourist visa and find work in the country? I realise that you can�t work on a tourist visa, but is it possible for your employer to arrange an employment visa while you remain in the country? Because I already have some savings, this could be more ideal for me, as I�d be able to meet the employer, check out the facilities, other tefl opportunities in the area, and get insider information. But I�m not sure how possible this is in China. Once again, I know this topic has probably been discussed countless times, but I�m currently unable to use the search function, still no idea why! However, if you don�t want to explain the situation again I�d appreciate any links to some useful threads.

[xiao51]

To the OP,

As is everything else for FT's in China, it's often just a "roll of the dice".

Many of the posters here will give you speeches, I believe, about how impossible this and that it but it can or cannot play out like that.

I still have good friends in China who are highly credentialed making paltry sums at universities for the same reasons to which you allude.

I have a friend from Latin America, yes Latin America, who went to China in September, with only a TESOL and no university degree, about your age, and no highly experienced, but with a good personality. He landed a really good job in one of the really exciting big cities in China at RMB 10,000 per month with a lot of perks. Others suffer, others prosper.

The tourist visa thing is also a roll of the dice. Not recommended as there are fewer and fewer provinces that will convert in situ but it still can happy. Working on a tourist visa is not recommended, particularly at year's end because somehow, somehow and try to imagine why, the PSB suddenly become more vigilant around holiday / end of year / bonus time. It's not hard to fathom.

Finally, the age bracket might cause you some difficulties and then again it just might not.

If you are from one of what the Chinese call the "Big Five" approved countries, and if you are not a member of any specific visible minority (I hate to say it), then your chances are probably 90% of finding what you want. The competition, however, in BJ and SH and GZ is really, really stringent so polish your resume, take a good and serious profile picture, and don't look like the backpacker that just morphed in across the Golden Triangle border.

[nickpellatt]

Avoid the Universities. I really think this would be a bad move for you as a new teacher.

The reason I believe this is because you are very unlikely to get the support you are looking for. The Uni jobs that people on the boards talk up are the ones where you are left totally alone to do pretty much what you want without any interference, monitoring or syllabus. This is probably not something you want as a new teacher, and you have mentioned support as something that is important to you.

Public schools are also likely to feature large class sizes. You may be lucky and only have 20 students per class, but you could also have 30, 40, 50, 60 or more students per class. This is not an ideal environment for you to practise any of the skills you have learnt on your TEFL course.

Added to this is the fact you may only see these large classes for 45 minutes per week. This is something else I dont believe is good for learning your trade, as its very hard to accurately assess and work on language issues with big classes that you see so infrequently.

You may also find students are not streamed according to ability. Classes may feature advanced students paired with low intermediates.

The result of this is that the skills you learn in this type of job may not be highly regarded at all if you try to find work back home or in the EU somewhere, and to some degree ... it may be a waste of your TEFL training as you will return to the UK pretty much still a newbie. Your experience wont count for much, or even anything.

Yes, there are bad training centres, but yes, there are also bad Universities. This isnt the issue for me, the issue is the actual teaching experience and I firmly believe that if you are looking long term into EFL, and are also looking at a future beyond China, a Uni gig may be a bad idea.

I have spent time in a Middle School and a medium sized college. Both of these offered great experiences, a lot of fun and each had its own benefits, but as a teaching experience, both were really pretty poor. I worked in a training centre, and whilst some elements of life there werent great, the actual teaching experience was good, with all the things I think I needed as a teacher. (small classes/adults/teaching materials/observations/support)

Its your first job, hopefully the first of many. Get the teaching environment right.

[Mister Al]

[Paul D.]

Personally, I think you should stick to your idea of "teaching" at a university or high school for several reasons based on the following excerpt -


"....I�m only 21? The reason I want to aim for the universities is partly due to all the horror stories I�ve heard about the language schools. In addition, earning a high salary is not important to me, because I may not be in this for the long haul. I�d rather work in a reasonably supportive environment where the pay was low, but the hours were not too high. However, I realise that due to my age and experience, I cannot afford to be fussy. .."


I agree with others that university jobs basically offer no sort of support. They basically just give you the book (if they have one) and your schedule and then you are on your own.

The boss may sit-in on a class and an even rarer one will give you some feedback, but generally they let you "edutain" the students how you deem fit. The hours are nice, but the salary lower than what you would make at a reputable training center, such as Wall St., Web and even EF. Other training centers pay less. Some even pay what you could eventually make at a university if your were in it for the long haul. But with less hours, no nights or weekends and longer holidays.


It seems to me that you are just interested in seeing what "teaching" English overseas is about and had some money available (whether your own or a loan) to take the Trinity course. The "long haul" comment strikes me the most.

As the person above typed - EF is probably best for someone your age because I sincerely doubt Wall St. or Web would hire a 21 year old just out of school with no experience in China to "teach" their 25+ year old students. EF supposedly hires younger people directly from overseas.

There are plenty of other "smaller" training centers that you might want to look into. Recently here on Dave's there is a topic about "Shane English" and "Disney English", perhaps they are reputable? There are plenty of other centers out there with more hours and not that much more pay than a university job.

That being said - stick with your university idea or also look into lower grades in smaller cities. The Nanjing University of Finance & Economics advertised on www.chinetefl.com might be for you. I doubt you could get a job in Shanghai if you're interested in that big city. Nanjing is close to Shanghai.

I think this would be a good choice for any new "teacher". Work at a university with low hours. You'll have plenty of time to get acclimated to China and TEFL. If you like it and want something a bit more serious, you could always apply to a reputable training center after your 1st or 2nd year "toiling" at a university.

Good Luck!

[nickpellatt]

Wall Street require two years post degree experience. I have talked to them before and was told this, so it would seem to rule out the OP.

Not all training centres work weekends, evenings and long hours. I think Aston or Shane (cant remember which one) have an option where you choose how many hours (15/20/25) and are paid accordingly. I spoke to a training centre near SH a few years ago, and they just wanted weekends ... 2 days of 8 classes. Not for me, but it would give a lot of free time.

I personally wouldnt work at a Uni or public school in China for the reasons I have listed above. I pretty much only want to teach adults, and I only want small classes. A lot of the blinkered approaches and troublesome students I read about here, the type who cant think for themselves, and are overly pro-China are the younger ones, or University ones. Kinda like Uni students in the West really!

When I worked with adults, people who were married, had careers, homes, children, I found them much more open, understanding and generally better motivated. Definitely the way for me to go ... although I cant argue with the holidays offered by Uni jobs!