Job Discussion Forums

[malu]

With the establishment of so-called International Standard (Bertaraf Internasional) state schools in Indonesia I have noticed quite a few language schools including those from large franchise chains are farming out teachers to work at local schools for a few hours each week.

This might seem like a nice little income stream for a language school proprietor but the practice is in danger of causing huge problems nationwide.

The BI schools are, in most cases, a complete rip-off with parents paying inflated fees for a very poor imitation of an international education. Having a FT around for a couple of hours per week adds to their image even though your average student gets no more than one period with a native speaker and often in a large class situation. The FTs being farmed out have to cope with crap hours such as early morning at a school then an evening session back at the franchise.

However, the biggest danger with this arrangement is that it blurs the distinction between ESL teaching and grade-school teaching - and brings the activities of language schools within the remit of the education ministry (Depdiknas). The ministry is now taking a much greater interest in qualifications of language school teachers seeing that so many of them end up working in state schools for part of their job. Further, the BI schools are getting into conflict with Depdiknas because the former are supposed to abide by strict regulations concerning teachers' qualifications and their relationship with the language schools allows them to subvert the rules to a certain extent.

This is all going to end in tears if things continue as they are now.

[Madame J]

My previous language school would often farm out teachers full time, with the teachers selected generally having better qualifications than the teachers remaining at the institute, but meaning of course that "farmed" teachers were doing the same job as a qualified school teacher but for a fraction of the pay. I always did wonder how any of these teachers had managed to avoid doing a simple search for schools that would actually have paid them directly before coming.

More's the point, one wonders if well paid jobs for school/business English teachers are going to be phased out, as more and more schools/businesses realise they can simply rent out language institute teachers for a fraction of the cost.

[phis]

Sorry, I'm confused Madame J. Are you saying that the 'farmed out' teacher is getting a quarter of the pay of the local public/private school teacher? I don't know the figures, but I somehow doubt that. Still I'm open to correction, so could you enlighten us with some comparative numbers please?

Or are you saying that the schools should be hiring qualified foreign teachers at the same pay as they would receive in their home country? Economically speaking, the schools cannot and will not do that... just imagine the problems that would arise when local teachers started to compare the salary they were getting to that of the 'upstart interloper' (In their eyes... not mine!). I don't think that Depdiknas would allow this anyway. There is a justifiable policy of not employing a foreigner if a local person is available and qualified to do the same job.

@ Malu: I do agree that this policy could give rise to all sorts of problems and abuse... but so does every new thing that is introduced here, or elsewhere for that matter. However, I also think it can be beneficial too. With the state of education in some of the schools in Indonesia, I think some exposure is better than none at all.

Who knows... maybe the idea of interactive, communicative teaching/learning may rub off on some of the other teachers. Aren't you sick of trying to get through to kids who have been brainwashed from an early age into sitting quietly, never asking questions, and definitely never ever questioning the teacher, because the teacher is always right???!!!!

Mind you, I wouldn't mind just a little of that 'undeserved and unreserved respect' myself occasionally!

[extradross]

Some companies are supplying teachers to SMP schools [such as ULI based in Kelapa Gading] and paying a good rate for 'part-time' work. Figure on around 1.2 mil per morning session worked-six 40 minute classes.[200 thou per class.] Jesters like EF are sending their saps to do these sessions at the regular EF rate-2 40 minute classes=1 EF session. A mighty 80 thou paid to the teacher for two classes. The six 40 minute sessions would amount to three EF teaching periods-grand total of 240 thousand paid!

[malu]

If done properly (like ULI) then a supply teacher agency is fine and constitutes a new market segment that benefits the industry. The problem lies with the likes of EF and TBI doing it on the cheap whereby everyone loses.

The advantage of language school work in the past was that teachers got the morning off (which is damn useful in this extended rainy season) and class sizes were small. Those language school teachers being farmed out on the cheap now get the worst of both worlds.

The BI schools make much of their use (however sparing) of native speaker supply teachers in their marketing such that the more gullible parents send their kids to them and have already paid the fees in advance before they realise what a rip-off it is.

However, the major problem so far is that Depdiknas - who previously didn't give a toss about language schools - are now scrutinising teachers' qualifications and credentials in great detail. I know of two cases where Depdiknas insisted applicants should possess an English related degree in addition to a recognised ESL teaching certificate. If that catches on (and so far it has been a local ruling) quite a lot of people with a CELTA but a degree in, say, business or IT will be batting on a sticky wicket.

[Madame J]

[phis]

Thanks for a very clear answer to my questions Madame J, and to Malu for his clear input and follow up as well. Isn't it nice to have an educated discussion about something, even though we may not agree on certain points. I hate posters who make a habit of jumping onto threads just to input a load of drivel! I make a habit of dropping out of discussions early on whenever this happens, which, unfortunately, is far too often.

Just to clarify before I go on: I am at this point talking about teachers who are sent to public schools by their employers to teacher 'part of their contracted teaching hours'. I am not talking about full time positions, as this would place the language school in the position of agents and/or recruiters. A whole different kettle of fish!

We all seem to agree that, if you are working for a language school that pays an abysmal salary anyway, your relocation to a public school is not going to benefit you financially in any way, as your employer will continue to pay you under the contract you originally signed. That is, as long as you don't go beyond your contracted teaching hours, you will not get any additional pay.

This does seem a little hard, especially as the teachers selected to work in the public schools are usually the ones with better qualifications and experience... and in addition to teaching are in effect 'flag-waving' for both their employer and the public school! Thus the teacher has moved into the area of 'marketing'. But surely the question of extra pay is a point for negotiation between the teachers and the school they are working for? Again, in my experience, any reasonable school will either give extra money, or will reduce the total number of teaching hours per week; which amounts to the same thing.

BTW, I hate the expression 'farmed out'! Maybe my experience of bad schools is limited, and there are some schools who 'force' their employees to participate, but the people I know who do work in this way in public schools have always been 'asked' if they would like to do so. Therefore, haven't the teachers 'volunteered' for the positions?.... and, surely, surely, surely they have negotiated conditions, pay etc. beforehand, haven't they???!!! (That last part was meant as a friendly warning to teachers currently being asked to participate!

[malu]

There are pros and cons to both language school and grade school jobs. Most language schools pay less but unless you are DoS the work isn't usually that exhausting and it is nice to have mornings off to do things like shopping and going to the bank etc.

School teaching generally involves finishing work just as it starts raining (grr!), early mornings and larger classes often including a wide range of abilities.

A language school that I know (but won't name) near me is rostering staff to work schools in the morning, until 1pm, then back at the institute in the evening on some days. These guys are not volunteers and one or two are scarcely qualified even for language school jobs. This in turn has prompted Diknas to scrutinise those teachers' qualifications and this is making it difficult for them to renew work permits.

[phis]

I take your point Malu. However, split shifts, i.e. teaching mornings then returning in the evening to teach some more, are a fact of life in many language schools, especially when you start out teaching here. This is irrespective of whether you work solely in the language school, or a split between public school and language school. After a couple of years it is usually possible to negotiate your way into either morning or afternoon work, so the problem eventually goes away. No help to the poor newcomer though!

Personally, I didn't mind doing split shifts. Being notoriously bad at getting started in the morning, it meant that I was 'forced' to get into gear early on. Then I had the rest of the day to do what I wanted or needed to do, until it was time to start again at 5 or 6 pm. The real killers are those where you have a class in the morning, say up to 10a.m., then another between 12 to 2p.m, and then an evening shift as well. A working day spread over 12-13 hours! That is really abusive... and unfortunately does happen in some schools!! This is usually due to bad scheduling by the DOS (or, dare I say, used as a form of revenge on teachers who are being 'difficult'!!).

Sorry, all that was slightly off topic... it just brought back 'fond' memories of the early days!!

Mmm... I'm not sure what to say about the 'scarcely qualified even for a language school' teachers not being able to renew their work permits. I'm of the school of thought that believes that there are a lot of really good teachers out there with experience, but not necessarily the paper qualifications needed by the government here. However, there are a lot of really bad 'teachers', with and without qualifications. I have no problem with seeing these people unable to renew work permits.

The real problem as you state it seems to lie with the stupid schools who send teachers without the proper qualifications into public schools. There isn't really any solution to crass stupidity of this sort... and yes, it does spoil it for everyone else.

[markustm]

Simply put schools for years have outsourced teachers to do company training or teach a few hours in a high school. I personally know one school that has outsourced teachers for 12 years to one particular high school in West Jakarta.

The big change is the high cost of hiring a foreign teacher, recent taxation laws and the fact that it has priced expatriate teaching staff out of being hired on a full time basis for many of these Nat-plus schools.

Another problem Indonesian schools will face in the future is attracting qualified teachers under the new immigration regulations, as no one in their right mind with a degree in Education and a CELTA/Teaching certificate would work for 7-9 million a month.

In the short term outsourcing works well for everyone, but if language mills discover they cannot attract the right "qualified" teachers, those who can stay and work in Indonesia as a "teacher,"-will see a big increase in their salaries.

[phis]

[quote="markustm"]....but if language mills discover they cannot attract the right "qualified" teachers, those who can stay and work in Indonesia as a "teacher,"-will see a big increase in their salaries.[/quote]

Wishful thinking!!