Job Discussion Forums

[Rakuten]

My aim was not to put anyone on the spot here- nor was I directly calling anyone out, more making an overall claim in general about the particular question addressed by this topic.

That being said, I was more shocked than anything by the fact that so many not only admitted to not knowing or attempting to learn the language, but the fact that they don't even seem to care or regret that they've been living in a place for said number of years and still have a minimal grasp on the language. I went through 7 pages of this thread, expecting to see a few people respectfully in disagreement with the OP, and yet it seemed like the overwhelming majority were not only agreeing with the claims made, but also making an attempt to justify the fact. I was more so shocked by the overwhelming majority of ESL teachers not only not knowing the language of where they have been for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? years and onwards, but also having little to no regrets for not having done so- and not feeling like it had any effects either way, negative or positive.

I'm wondering though, a common response was "I'm too busy with other things/pursuing other interests" and I wonder what other interests that any expat pursues in another country couldn't be enriched or made better/easier by also having a grasp on the local/regional language. Although language is a passion of mine, it's not my only interest. I love philosophy and traveling. One reason I opted to learn French was to be able to read the work of French philosophers in the native language/original text. I was so proud of myself when I finally was able to read Huis Clos in it's entirety, and understand it more fully than my English reading of it. The fact alone that I was able to do so, caused me even more pleasure and gave me a sense of pride, than even the content of the work itself (which was always one of my favourite works/plays).

While in Japan, I find that traveling around is infinitely more rewarding having a grasp of the language. Being able to read signs/maps as the more pragmatic, and having some of the most wonderful conversations/random encounters and meeting of friends through some amazing conversations and experiences when out traveling. Always though, in Japanese- as I found very few people outside of University Students/Study Abroad students studying the language have a strong grasp of English. The conversations I found myself having in English with Japanese speakers were often limited to a group of high/middle school students on a field trip at a popular castle/shrine and asking me to practice speaking with them/fill out a survey for their class project in English. Always, when a J-speaker found out I spoke Japanese, their preferred means of communication would be in Japanese, even if they did speak some English. In most cases, this was met with not only enthusiasm, but quite a bit of relief on their part.

However, these are limited to my experiences alone. I don't expect everyone to love language, but I just wanted to ask if maybe people who live in a place for an extended period of time give learning the language an attempt. Even though you may think it won't have an effect or is a waste of time, I strongly disagree with this- and think you may find that no matter what you are interested in, understanding the language and being able to more fully converse with people will only enrich and make what you like doing there, that much easier and more rewarding- even if you don't think so now.

Learning language takes time, but it's never something I've heard anyone express regrets about after the fact. Even if you are just teaching English for the now- and don't intend to be in involved with said country after your time there/in the future- it can't hurt the now, and you never know when it may come in handy. I guess my philosophy is why just "get by" with English, even if you can. Don't you want to spend however long of time you are there, doing more than merely getting by?

I didn't intend for my first post in this thread to sound hostile, it was more just shock, as I was surprised to hear so few regrets from many ESL teachers for not knowing the language, and not thinking knowing the language would enrich their experience in their country. Even if you don't think it's worth it, or will have any effect on your experiences, I ask you to at least give it a try and see if it doesn't make whatever else you like doing that much more rewarding as well.

[johnslat]

Dear Rakuten,

I'm a voracious reader, about a book a week, at least. I'm surprised by how little my colleagues (English teachers all) read.

Do you think they are all just lazy?

Regards,
John

[mimi_intheworld]

Well, I'm still studying my Arabic. Even though apparently it's Egyptian Arabic and not UAE Arabic...but a girl's gotta start somewhere!

So I guess that puts me in the minority, but then, I've always thought we (English-speakers, but really everyone) need to learn more languages. When I went to school, learning a foreign language wasn't even a requirement for graduation...and that disturbed me, as I was studying two, added a third in university (which I have since let lapse - sorry, German-lovers) and keep picking up bits of new ones. I just think it's the right thing to do if you're going to travel: learn to communicate.

Arabic's going slowly, by the way. But I am very much enjoying the study!

[naturegirl321]

[Perilla]

[denise]

No, learning the language would not, in any remote way, help me with the other activities that I do, since the instructors use English. I actually started taking French lessons several months ago, just because I had that nagging thought of, "Well, I really should study another language..." But after a few 15-hour days that left me physically ill, I dropped French (not the local language anyway--but more appealing to me) and went back to my other activities, which were/are far bigger priorities.

I wasn't surprised at all to read the responses that were in agreement with the OP. I really think there are a lot of myths to living abroad: "It's the best way to learn the language," "You will immerse yourself in the culture..." etc. Sure, for SOME people in SOME countries/cultures, that may be the case. But apparently it seems that many of us realize that it is not always the case--somebody, a page or two back, even said something along the lines of "...and then I woke up and saw reality..."

I think people who categorize everyone who doesn't learn the language, have scores of local friends, marry into a local family, etc., as stupid/lazy have only ever had the luxury of living in places where it's common to do those things. Enjoy it while you can. If/when you move on to other places that are different, maybe you will understand the "lazy" perspective.

d

[riverboat]

I've put a lot of effort into learning the language here, but then again I'm in France. And part of the reason I came was to learn the language.

I'd probably be surprised if someone who was living in a country that was French-speaking, Spanish-speaking, German-speaking, or basically where at least the alphabet was the same as English, didn't want to make an effort to learn the language to at least a pre-int level. The majority of teachers I come into contact with here make an effort to learn French, even if they're only planning on staying for a year. I've only met one or two who really didn't bother at all. I think that in these cases they did make an effort first, but gave up after not being immediately fluent after 2/3 months, and also realising that in fact it's perfectly possible to function here only speaking in English. That said, life is definitely a hell of a lot easier if you can speak French.

I can imagine though that in an Arabic or Asian country, where the language bears no resemblance to English whatsoever, the challenge would seem a lot greater and be a lot more time-consuming...depending on how long I was planning to stay, I probably wouldn't be chomping at the bit to struggle up such a steep hill, beyond the basics for shops, restaurants etc.

[Iceman33]

Native English speakers are often so intimidated with Arabic and Far East languages (and sometimes Russian, Finnish, and Hungarian, too). They really shouldn't be, even if they seem like a maze along the way. All languages can be learned fluently, provided you have normal intelligence and a strong desire to master it.

For French being "so much" easier, I know very few native English speakers who've, what I consider, mastered the language.

It is not linguistically wise to generally state that one language is easier than another. Comparing aspects of languages is much better and safer, once you've established the mother tongue of the learner and the language he is attempting to learn.

A native English speaker may pick up Japanese or Thai much more quickly than German or French, even if the "exotic" ones seem so bizarre. It happens.

[Insubordination]

I don't want to judge or praise anybody. People need an incentive to learn a language. Showing respect for the host culture is not a strong one. Improving relationships and making daily life easier is.

If you decide to become a permanent resident/citizen, then not learning the language smacks of cultural imperialism. Some locals interpret foreigners living many years in a country and not bothering as a giant middle finger. Why should I? What I have is much better/more important. I don't want to associate with you. Maybe it's not true, but it's the impression people get.

Think of people in your home country who live in enclaves and don't learn English. What is the general attitude towards them?

I do think 'When in Rome...' is a good idea and respectful, but it depends if you're there for the long haul or just a working stint.

[Perilla]

[Sashadroogie]

[jonniboy]

[jonniboy]

[Phil_K]

[Sashadroogie]

Yet there are so, so many otherwise intelligent people who fail miserably to learn a foreign language, even when they really do try to. How many seriously smart computer programmers have we taught who will almost never be able to progress beyond the mechanical rudiments needed for their job?