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millie18
Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 185
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ntropy

Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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after going through their recruitment process more than once, the incompetence doesn't surprise me...nor does the Qatari govt's decision to bring in the US community college. |
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Lonesome Dove
Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 24
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:18 am Post subject: It's not over ... |
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The Newfoundland-government-appointed auditor's report is also available to the public here:
www.gov.nl.ca/edu
The Newfoundland government seems to be trying to spin this as �no evidence of deliberate misstatement.� But this is not the real story. The report actually states: �Our review procedures were not designed or intended to detect fraud and should not be relied upon as such.�
Remains to be seen whether the press or opposition in Newfoundland or the press in Qatar choose to dig further. If this was just incompetence, the level of incompetence is hard to believe:
�From our review, it was determined that many decisions/interpretations appear to have been made verbally and therefore no documentation could be found to substantiate certain assertions.�
(Of course, this could also be a case of covering your tracks.)
According to the Comprehensive Agreement, regular audits were supposed to be done, and these regular audits would have prevented this overbilling from taking place. These regular audits were not done.
�We discussed this matter with the current CNA VP Finance, a former VP of the Qatar Project and a former President of the College. None of the parties could offer an explanation as to why these audits were not undertaken.�
You be the judge.
There were supposed to be internal audits as well�which seem to have stopped (or disappeared from the files) in about 2006, which, oddly enough, is just when the salary overpayments started to happen.
Nobody really knows, it seems, how the salaries were arrived at�according to the report, it was all done through a complicated spreadsheet/database in the president's office, with no backup. A month after that president left the college, this system �crashed�--so we'll never know. All very mysterious, and raises a lot of questions not answered in the report.
It is interesting to see that there was no Qatari participation in this investigation, and the Qataris have not indicated whether they accept this report.
�We held numerous discussions with officials of CNA however we were not able to speak with representatives of Qatar. Questions from us were sent to the Qatar Project Sponsor through the current VP Qatar Project. We have not received a response to date,...�
Not surprising that the Qataris want to stay at arm's length. It is a bit surprising that they simply ignored the requests, as opposed to politely declining. That sounds like bad blood, and as though this affair may not be over as far as the Qataris are concerned.
It may not be over as far as CNAQ employees are concerned either. Several places in the report, the auditor states categorically that CNAQ's current practice of withholding 6% of employee pay to cover an end-of-service gratuity violates the Comprehensive Agreement. It really looks as though current and past CNAQ employees should band together in a class action suit to test this claim. They might well be entitled to that 6% plus interest, in addition to their end-of-service gratuity under Qatari labour law. |
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Lonesome Dove
Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 24
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millie18
Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 185
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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One section of the audit report states
"The errors made by staff of the college were the result of a combination of factors including:
The need to offer competitive salaries;
Certain language and terms in the Comprehensive Agreement being vague and open to interpretation;
Certain decisions made on the varying interpretations of the Comprehensive Agreement were not documented or discussed with Qatar;
Matters of interpretation of the Comprehensive Agreement were not brought forward to the Joint Oversight Board for consultation and clarification; and,
Audit requirements provided for under the Comprehensive Agreement were not met.
The report also found weaknesses in the college�s oversight, management and approval practices related to the billings as well as clerical errors in spreadsheets and manual calculations. The review found no evidence of deliberate misstatement of the amounts under review."
And in the original CBC story it was insinuated that some of those who misinterpreted, failed to audit, miscalculated, did not report back, etc. are no longer with the college. Is this true and is there no recourse? |
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Lonesome Dove
Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 24
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:19 am Post subject: Recourse |
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It is certainly true that there has been a high turnover for members of the CNA and CNAQ executive. Over the past year or so, they have even started disappearing without any announcement or notice.
Unfortunately, we cannot tell whether this is a case of the good guys driving out the bad guys, or the bad guys driving out the good guys.
Overall, circumstantial evidence seems to suggest the latter. The disorganization and scandal seem to have survived all past firings and new hirings. Some jobs have even seen three or more occupants, without visible improvement.
Logically, the individual or individuals really responsible is/are likely to be someone who has been in a high position all along, and remain(s) there.
Is there any recourse? For whom? From the auditors' report, it looks as though the Qataris could take CNA to court if they wanted to. But I doubt it would be worth their while�even if the Qataris themselves are entirely innocent here. Bad publicity, bad for business.
It also looks as though the employees could take CNA/CNAQ to court for back pay. It would take a bit of nerve, though, since they have already been paid well above market rates for their services. The folks back in Newfoundland are alread complaining about retired schoolteachers returning from Qatar to build �million-dollar houses.�
For the students? No. |
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millie18
Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 185
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Suspected as much. I thought there was someone from the JOB embedded at CNAQ to over see the operation and represent the interests of the state. If true, it would seem it's not only CNAQ at fault - but then, the audit report reflects that. |
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kellygreen
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 Posts: 91
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Some more up to date news
Still no word on the contract with the state
Those whose contracts were renewed recently and had vacation days coming to them at the end of their contracts which days were to be paid out were told on the due date of the payment that there would be a slight delay - no updates since that time (more than a week) on when payment might be effected. Note: contracts were renewed as of Aug 1st and payment was to be effected 3 months later - now delayed. |
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Lonesome Dove
Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 24
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm�probably nothing, but there a potential here for real mischief. I may be wrong, I am not a lawyer, but it looks as though, if relations went that sour, and if the Qataris wanted, they could really stick it to CNA�the Canadian parent institution�and CNAQ.
CNAQ instructors are officially employees of CNA. CNA, in Canada, is therefore legally fully responsible for their pay, and these contracts are apparently enforcable in either Qatari or Canadian courts. CNA must then get the necessary funds from Qatar. So, as we have already seen, if the contracts CNA makes with their instructors do not tally with their agreement with the Qataris, that's CNA's problem. We've seen it on the severance pay issue, and we've seen it on the salary overpayment scandal.
Now imagine the Qataris choose to dispute the salary payments in detail. They have clearly retained that right, judging by the Newfoundland government auditor's report. If they choose to do so, and push comes to shove, CNA is left to sue the Qatari government in a Qatari court for the money. Could take years, and who will give odds on beating a foreign government in their own courts?
In the meantime, though, CNA remains fully liable for the pay of everyone under contract�who can sue them for it, if necessary, in either Canadian or Qatari courts.
It almost looks as though this threat has already been used against CNAQ for a while�as if the blood went bad over other matters, perhaps the hiring of underqualified ex-schoolteachers as faculty, and the inability to certify programs, and the Qataris have been putting the heat on CNA/CNAQ for the past year or two. Hence the salary overpayment issue last year, the rumoured Qatari government audit, the unannounced disappearance of key management, etc.
If this another step in some process like that, simply not renewing the CNA contract may be the least of it. It may get rather uncomfortable for CNAQ instructors before that contract ends. People might get stiffed for pay. CNA/CNAQ management, given their track record, and previous hints in this regard (�we are assuming the Qataris will continue to honour all contracts�--email last spring, from memory) are likely to try to spin it as the instructors' problem, and claim they cannot pay if the Qataris do not. This is pretty plainly not true in legal terms.
The good news is, the enterprise is backed by all the taxpayers of Newfoundland.
The bad news is, the enterprise is backed by all the taxpayers of Newfoundland. |
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veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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If I were a CNAQ teacher, I would be seriously job searching in order to leave ASAP. The last batch of teachers are going to be left holding the bag. They may be able to get their money ... eventually... through the Canadian courts, but who wants to deal with long law suits.
VS |
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millie18
Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 185
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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From what I understand from my cnaq contact - cna is already hip deep in legal proceedings with employees/former employees. The reason no one hears about them is that there is a no disclosure requirement should a settlement be reached (witness the last president's departing message) |
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wilberforce
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 647
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is unbelievable. I wonder how it is that IMTIAZ got away with withholding salary from its teachers. They got a big package deal from QP but paid the teachers a fraction of what they were supposed to. They also gypped ups on the housing. We got substandard apartments (but I hear Lang Sols has given even smaller apartments so I guess they must be even more penny pinching or is it riyal pinching than IMTIAZ. I suppose nobody had the guts to take them to court although some hapless individuals tried to make complaints. They got turfed out before their complaints could be heard! |
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veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Now you've confused me Wilbur... what has IMTIAZ to do with CNAQ and its relationship with the Qatar government? Did this end up on the wrong thread?
VS |
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wilberforce
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 647
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments wrote: |
Now you've confused me Wilbur... what has IMTIAZ to do with CNAQ and its relationship with the Qatar government? Did this end up on the wrong thread?
VS |
Sorry VS for the confusion. The point is that both CNAQ and QP's subcontractor IMTIAZ were paid by the Qatar government. Both organizations appear to have fiddled the books. CNAQ seems to have got caught while IMTIAZ got away scot-free because the owner has wasta. They fiddled away a lot of QP money but were not held to account. CNAQ's own auditors apparently found the mistake. QP's auditors have written off the fiddle as just another unidentified expense. |
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lollaerd
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 337
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: |
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What's the latest on this deal? Has it been fixed. I've heard the money is still around somewhere, they need to fix the books properly. Anybody know what happened? |
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